Robbie,
What is to happen to the 144,000? Are the 144,000 all Israelites? Are the 144,000 all males? Are the 144,000 all virgins? Are the 144,000 the only ones who are given eternal life?
King James Version
==============
The Revelation 7: 4 - 8, 9, 10
-------------------------------------
And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.
Of the tribe of Juda were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Reuben were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Gad were sealed twelve thousand.
Of the tribe of Aser were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Nepthalim were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Manasses were sealed twelve thousand.
Of the tribe of Simeon were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Levi were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Issachar were sealed twelve thousand.
Of the tribe of Zabulon were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Joseph were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Benjamin were sealed twelve thousand.
After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;
And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb.
The Revelation 14: 1, 3, 4
---------------------------------
And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Zion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads.
And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth.
These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.
Originally posted by divegeesterI dont think he is listening 😀
KOP, if you are going to enter into debate with the slippery duo you may be better placed to keep your responses very concise and very on point, as they will use any side issue, deflection or other dubious debating tactic to avoid the pertinacity of your post.
Divegeester,
Thanks for your concern. I hope that my posts get them to think of specific beliefs they hold. I hope that the witnesses can show from the holy bible verses that prove their beliefs. If they can see that some of what they believe is not supported by the bible, then how can they say that those beliefs are more than "thus saith the mind of man?"
Also, there are more than 2 people to be concerned about. Hopefully, those 2 people will not be the only ones reading my posts even if I put their names at the beginning. So many souls are there that can have eternal life.
Originally posted by KingOnPointwhy would christ be created? because thats what the Bible says,
Why would Christ be created at all? Why do you believe that an angel controls your eternal life? Eternal life is not bound to a created angel. Salvation for eternal life is bound in the sinless God through Christ Jesus who is God. It is not bound in a created being.
Why do witnesses think Christ is Michael? Where is the scripture that proves that ...[text shortened]... is was he of whom I spake, He that cometh after me is preferred before me: for he was before me.
Colossians 1 v 15
He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation. For by him all things were created, in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities—all things were created through him and for him.
As for the 144.000, who there are and where do they come from,
Revelation 14:4
These have been purchased from among men as first fruits to God and to the Lamb.
so they are both men and women, being gathered from all the nations and are spiritual Israelites and spiritual virgins.
I hope this answers your question
Originally posted by KingOnPointAs for your friend divesgeester may I suggest you ask him to apply the words of 1 Thessalonians 4:11, it will save you and I a plethora of trouble.
Divegeester,
P.S. If the Jehovah's witnesses believe that only 144,000 will be given eternal life, then how many witnesses are on this earth now, have been on this earth, and will be on this earth? More than 144,000?
Secondly, how do I make it more concise?
Originally posted by KingOnPointand to the best of my ability i have answered those questions with scripture.
Robbie,
Go back and look at my posts. Hopefully you will find that I have asked direct questions in the beginning. Then also expounded or provided scripture.
Robbie,
As for being quiet, the scripture needs to be presented. It isn't me they need to believe in, but they need to "hear" even though reading is accomplished through seeing.
King James Version
==============
Acts 25: 22
Then Agrippa said unto Festus, I would also hear the man myself. To morrow, said he, thou shalt hear him.
I Peter 3: 15
----------------
But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear:
Acts 28: 28
Be it known therefore unto you, that the salvation of God is sent unto the Gentiles, and that they will hear it.
Romans 10: 13 -14
For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
"How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard?..."
Originally posted by KingOnPointIndeed which is why Jehovah's witnesses have a public ministry and go from house to house sharing the Good News of Gods Kingdom, after the manner of Christ and the apostles.
Robbie,
As for being quiet, the scripture needs to be presented. It isn't me they need to believe in, but they need to "hear" even though reading is accomplished through seeing.
King James Version
==============
Acts 25: 22
Then Agrippa said unto Festus, I would also hear the man myself. To morrow, said he, thou shalt hear him.
I Peter 3 ...[text shortened]... whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard?..."
Originally posted by KingOnPointThere are Christians who take the approach with JWs you are describing and I respect them and wholeheartedly support them. However it my personal view that that it not my place to adopt that approach here.
Divegeester,
P.S. If the Jehovah's witnesses believe that only 144,000 will be given eternal life, then how many witnesses are on this earth now, have been on this earth, and will be on this earth? More than 144,000?
Secondly, how do I make it more concise?
As for being more concise, I guess you just need more experience of dealing with robbie and Galveston. Actually you will find that many JWs adopt a similar approach as they are coached in the same methodology.
Originally posted by robbie carrobieNo, what you do is promote your corporations religious temporal infrastructure, and membership scheme through a form of the gospel. The religion you belong to is a cultish offshoot of the core denominational system.
Indeed which is why Jehovah's witnesses have a public ministry and go from house to house sharing the Good News of Gods Kingdom, after the manner of Christ and the apostles.
I do note hate you, nor am I persecuting you.
Originally posted by divegeesterYou have NO public ministry, you have hidden your talent, dig it up and hand it back to Jesus when he returns, as for us, we carry out our commission to preach and teach the Good news of Gods Kingdom to people of all the nations as a Witness as the Christ commanded Christians,
No, what you do is promote your corporations religious temporal infrastructure, and membership scheme through a form of the gospel. The religion you belong to is a cultish offshoot of the core denominational system.
I do note hate you, nor am I persecuting you.
Matthew 28:19,20
When you do engage in a public ministry then you may be qualified to judge the efforts of others as it stands your words are simply meaningless and empty, remember, dig up your talent and hand it back to Jesus when he returns.
Divegeester,
Christians of all types who are true Christians need to be correct in our beliefs whether or not there are Jehovah's witnesses who have truly believed or Catholic who have truly believed. If we believe wrong, then that incorrect belief may have eternal death consequences. If we believe we should not give gifts at Christmas out of respect to Christ, it will not have eternal death consequences.
First of all, we need to be right about how to be saved. After we are saved, then we can concentrate on trying to do good. But doing good before someone is saved will never get him or her to heaven. Doing good after we are saved will not save us. Salvation is in Christ alone.
How little good did the thief on the cross do to be saved? He trusted in Christ. And also, he changed his mind about Christ while he was on the cross beside Christ. Repentance is a change of mind. It isn't how good we can be after we believe.