A Modern Parable

Originally posted by KellyJay
What tipped you off, thw warm and cold blood they do not share?
Kelly

this tipped me off..
Gen 3:15 And I will put enmity between thee and the
woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head,
and thou shalt bruise his heel.

Originally posted by no1marauder
You'll go blind if you keep "self modding", Phlabby.

that gives a different spin to Machiavelli's

" In the land of the blind , the one-eyed man is King"

Originally posted by ivanhoe
http://www.catholicevangelism.org/sin.shtml

"You can arbitrarily decide what truth is; you can decide for your self what is good and evil".


Selfishness and Sin.
Selfishness and sin, an abuse of freedom, was noted by Saint Augustine when he wrote:
"Sin says "I,I,I," - not thou".

Selfishness and Sin of any kind subverts and destroys unity. ...[text shortened]... ity of God - a violation of "sacred space".


http://www.catholicevangelism.org/sin.shtml

A fine position for a Church which hobnobs with Kings and dictators: do as you're told and don't think toooooooo much. How is a Church stating what is good and evil any less arbitrary then any individual trying to ascertain the same thing by use of his natural reason? If anybody sounds prideful, I'd say it's a group of doddering old men who insist they, and only they, KNOW what God's will is.

Originally posted by no1marauder
A fine position for a Church which hobnobs with Kings and dictators: do as you're told and don't think toooooooo much. How is a Church stating what is good and evil any less arbitrary then any individual trying to ascertain the same thing by use of his natural reason? If anybody sounds prideful, I'd say it's a group of doddering old men who insist they, and only they, KNOW what God's will is.

http://www.catholicevangelism.org/h-authority.shtml

The Magisterium:

"This teaching office is not above the word of God but serves it..."
The process of recognizing the written word of God involved a human process of discernment by the Magisterium ( teaching authority ) of the Catholic Church over many centuries of time. Quoting from one of the 16 documents of Vatican 11, Dei Verbum* ( Word of God ) "...but the task of authentically interpreting the Word of God, whether written or handed down, has been entrusted exclusively to the living teaching office of the church, whose authority is exercised in the name of Jesus Christ. This teaching office is not above the word of God but serves it, teaching only what has been handed on... with the help of the Holy Spirit; it draws from this one deposit of faith everything it presents for belief as divinely revealed."

http://www.catholicevangelism.org/h-authority.shtml

Originally posted by ivanhoe
http://www.catholicevangelism.org/h-authority.shtml

The Magisterium:

"This teaching office is not above the word of God but serves it..."
The process of recognizing the written word of God involved a human process of discernment by the Magisterium ( teaching authority ) of the Catholic Church over many centuries of time. Quoting from one of the 16 d ...[text shortened]... ts for belief as divinely revealed."

http://www.catholicevangelism.org/h-authority.shtml

So my statement was correct - a group of doddering old men believe that they and ONLY THEY know what God's will is. Pretty prideful, ain't it?

Originally posted by no1marauder
I can't decide if you are really thick or are being disingenous. On the off chance that it is the first and you have a severe reading comprehension problem, here's Genesis 3:19:

19 in the sweat of thy face shalt thou ...[text shortened]... denialibility" I suggest you try Zeus re the Pandora's Box myth.

To begin with we need to look at all who are involved in this story, who
they are, what part they play, what position they have in the grand
scheme of things, what they do with the position and power and
authority they have in the story. The most important is God, God just
created the entire universe, nothing was made that was not made by
God, all of it belongs to God, and God governs the actions of
everything He created. He set the stars in the sky for signs, God told
everything to multiply after its kind, and God placed man within the
garden and gave man some authority over the earth within God’s
creation.

God gave man one command, one thing was forbidden from man and
that was that man was not to eat of the tree of knowledge of good
and evil. This command came with a warning which was, “...for when
you eat of it you will surely die.” This is the warning; it isn’t saying
that the very moment that you eat you will die instantly, only that if
and when you do this, death will follow, “…you will surely die.” As I
have pointed out to you earlier, the wages of sin is death, without
sin there wasn’t any death to worry about.

Genesis 2: 15-17
15The LORD God took the man and put him in the Garden of Eden to
work it and take care of it. 16And the LORD God commanded the
man, "You are free to eat from any tree in the garden; 17but you
must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for
when you eat of it you will surely die."

Now we move on to the lie, the one the serpent told them; in verse 1
of chapter 3 the very first thing the serpent does is open for door for
doubting God’s word, he does not come outright and say God lied, he
simply wanted the room for doubt to come. “Did God really say…” in
verse 4 the serpent lies outright, “You will not surely die.” Within the
woman There was no doubt what God said, she quoted it to the
serpent, and we know that Adam was there too, because after she ate
some of the fruit she game some to him and he too ate some. Why
did she eat it knowing that God had said not to eat of it,

“When the woman saw that the fruit of the tree was good for food and
pleasing to the eye, and also desirable for gaining wisdom…”

She knew what was the right thing to do, which was to avoid eating of
that tree, but she wanted what she wanted, as did Adam.

31Now the serpent was more crafty than any of the wild animals the
LORD God had made. He said to the woman, "Did God really say, You
must not eat from any tree in the garden'?" 2The woman said to the
serpent, "We may eat fruit from the trees in the garden, 3but God did
say, `You must not eat fruit from the tree that is in the middle of the
garden, and you must not touch it, or you will die.' " 4"You will not
surely die," the serpent said to the woman. 5"For God knows that
when you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God,
knowing good and evil."
6When the woman saw that the fruit of the tree was good for food and
pleasing to the eye, and also desirable for gaining wisdom, she took
some and ate it. She also gave some to her husband, who was with
her, and he ate it. 7Then the eyes of both of them were opened, and
they realized they were naked; so they sewed fig leaves together and
made coverings for themselves.

So now we come to where you and I part company on the events and
what has taken place. It is your claim is seems that God killed them
right after finding out that they disobeyed God's command to not eat
of that tree, I am supposing that the words you feel justify this is,

“…until you return to the ground, since from it you were taken, for
dust you are.”

I do not see God killing them even using these words, because there
is nothing in here to suggest that God is now causing them to die,
God is simply pointing out now the direction they are headed, God did
not say, “for now I will shorten your life, or you will now die some time
down the road." He did pass along other punishments for actions and
with them the reasons for them, such as pain in child birth to the
woman, the earth was cursed because of man, since the earth was in
man’s charge it was his responsibility to care for it, and now when man
worked the earth he would sweat because of the toil where before he
could of done all the work he was assigned without working up a
sweat. God didn’t say now you’ll die, or now you’ll die later, because
that was already done, sin in man had done that already. God does
give man a time limit on life later just before the flood does God limit
man’s life time Genesis 6:3 where he limits man age to 120 years.

16To the woman he said, "I will greatly increase your pains in
childbearing; with pain you will give birth to children. Your desire will
be for your husband, and he will rule over you." 17To Adam he
said, "Because you listened to your wife and ate from the tree about
which I commanded you, `You must not eat of it,' "Cursed is the
ground because of you; through painful toil you will eat of it all the
days of your life. 18It will produce thorns and thistles for you, and you
will eat the plants of the field. 19By the sweat of your brow you will eat
your food until you return to the ground, since from it you were taken;
for dust you are.

Like I said to you before and you seem to just ignore it, even if I am
wrong in my reading of these events, God would still be justified since
God is the judge of the universe, the Law giver, and He can
administer justice as God sees fit. Unlike anyone in any of your stories
they have not the power in any since of the word equal to that of God
or even among human judges, kings, or other persons of power and
position in the human race.
Kelly

Originally posted by KellyJay
To begin with we need to look at all who are involved in this story, who
they are, what part they play, what position they have in the grand
scheme of things, what they do with the position and power and
authority they have in the story. The most important is God, God just
created the entire universe, nothing was made that was not made by
God, all of i ...[text shortened]... ven among human judges, kings, or other persons of power and
position in the human race.
Kelly

I won't waste further time with you; thr words are clear, particulary Genesis 3:19 which is simply another add on to the other punishments your psycho God hands out. You also conveniently ignore the later part where God sarcastically (?) talks about the Man now eating from the Tree of Life and living forever, which God prevents. Again if I stop an elderly man from getting his heart medicine and he eventually dies, I'm culpable. God in the story is in no different position.

As for your last paragraph, I already dealt with it, to wit:

When you go off on your "God created everything, He can do as he pleases" shtick, I do ignore that since nothing of any value can come by arguing with someone who holds such a dogmatic belief about the belief.

'Nuff said.

Originally posted by no1marauder
I won't waste further time with you; thr words are clear, particulary Genesis 3:19 which is simply another add on to the other punishments your psycho God hands out. You also conveniently ignore the later part where God sarcastically (?) talks about the Man now eating from the Tree of Life and living forever, which God prevents. Again if I stop ...[text shortened]... rguing with someone who holds such a dogmatic belief about the belief.

'Nuff said.

They are clear because you want them to mean what your saying,
not that they mean what you suggesting. Your running off just proves
in my opinion your position isn't one that can be defended.
Nuff said.
Kelly

Originally posted by KellyJay
They are clear because you want them to mean what your saying,
not that they mean what you suggesting. Your running off just proves
in my opinion your position isn't one that can be defended.
Nuff said.
Kelly

You're an idiot; I don't care what they MEAN - it's just a thought experiment for me trying to figure out what point a bunch of semisavages were trying to make. Sadly for you, it actually is the centerpoint for your pathetic belief system. I've went over and over; quoted the the words, even the many you ignore, it's just not fruitful to continue to argue with a fanatic who won't believe the words in front of him mean what they say. You're a sad joke; it's depressing to see someone in the 21st century with all the knowledge and tools the human race has given him decide to toss it in a garbage can to believe in fairy tales. You have my pity.

Originally posted by no1marauder
You're an idiot; I don't care what they MEAN - it's just a thought experiment for me trying to figure out what point a bunch of semisavages were trying to make. Sadly for you, it actually is the centerpoint for your pathetic belief system. I've went over and over; quoted the the words, even the many you ignore, it's just not fruitful to conti ...[text shortened]... ce has given him decide to toss it in a garbage can to believe in fairy tales. You have my pity.

I was under the impression that nuff said was that you were done?
I guess words don't mean much with you, and you call me the
idiot.
Repeating your point over and over does not make you correct,
even calling me names does not elevate your position to correct
either.
You are the one that started this thread, not me and I am being
called the fanatic here, I guess you have a strange way of looking
at things, but then that is the subject isn't, the way you look at
things!
Can we go back to nuff said, or would you like to go over if your
view of the events makes God the bad guy or not?
Kelly

Originally posted by KellyJay
I was under the impression that nuff said was that you were done?
I guess words don't mean much with you, and you call me the
idiot.
Repeating your point over and over does not make you correct,
even calling me names does not elevate your position to correct
either.
You are the one that started this thread, not me and I am being
called the fanatic h ...[text shortened]... d, or would you like to go over if your
view of the events makes God the bad guy or not?
Kelly

🙄🙄

Originally posted by no1marauder
🙄🙄

After reading my last to you I was baiting you and not being nice
about it either. Sorry, I shouldn't of treated you that way.
Kelly