A question of honesty

Originally posted by FMF
I am interested in hearing what you believe. I have met both Christians who do and those who don't consider Mormons to be fellow Christians.

What part of "Slow down and think about it for a moment" do you not understand? I don't need to explain what I've already explained.

Originally posted by lemon lime
...they won't be tormented by anything. And that includes the sort of torment you seem to think they would suffer in heaven.

Would this removal/absence of a feeling of torment ~ due to loved ones being tortured forever ~ be an admirable, natural thing or would it be a compulsory and artificial thing, in your view? It seems to involve removing or destroying one of the strongest, most impressive traits that humanity has.

Originally posted by lemon lime
What part of "Slow down and think about it for a moment" do you not understand? I don't need to explain what I've already explained.

Like I said, I have met Christians who do and Christians who don't consider Mormons to be fellow Christians so I am interested in hearing what you believe as to whether they can go to heaven. "Slow down and think about it for a moment" is simply dodging the question. Are you a Christian who believes Mormons are fellow Christians or one who does not?

Originally posted by lemon lime
There are Catholics who will be there, and Catholics who won't. But it won't be because they are Catholic or because they aren't.

On the "The apologetics game!" thread you seemed pretty clearly to be suggesting that Catholics are not Christians, in your view, and that Catholicism is not Christianity. Do you believe that non-Christians can go to the Christian heaven that you believe in?

Originally posted by FMF
Well sidestep the question by all means. It's OK. That people in "heaven" might be unaffected by the knowledge that a beloved spouse or child might (meanwhile) be being tortured forever in "hell" strikes a false note in terms of compassion and in terms of morality. It's a question about a detail that points to incoherency and even fabrication: i.e it does not se ...[text shortened]... ing true. But you can dodge the question by labelling it "inflammatory" if you feel the need to.

Not sidestepping the question, just giving you a small clue as to what anyone in heaven will not be subjected to.

But since you are so eager to know, it doesn't matter whether any of it rings true to you or not... the only thing that matters is whether it is true or not. If it is true but doesn't ring true to you, then by all means ignore what I'm saying and continue thrilling us with your thought provoking and insightful questions.

My point about heaven however was there will be no tormentors or accusers, or anyone to taunt them with horrible memories of their past lives, or asking them leading questions with the purpose of causing doubt. All of that crap will be filed away somewhere else along with the people who've promoted it.

Originally posted by lemon lime
Not sidestepping the question, just giving you a small clue as to what anyone in heaven will [b]not be subjected to.

But since you are so eager to know, it doesn't matter whether any of it rings true to you or not... the only thing that matters is whether it is true or not. If it is true but doesn't ring true to you, then by all means ignore what I ...[text shortened]... bt. All of that crap will be filed away somewhere else along with the people who've promoted it.[/b]

So, in Heaven there won't be threads like this one? Thank God.

Originally posted by lemon lime
...it doesn't matter whether any of it rings true to you or not... the only thing that matters is whether it is true or not.

Don't you think what is claimed to be "perfect" should at least ring true in terms of the supposed morality that underpins it? I would have thought that it matters a lot that the issue of "whether it is true or not" is answered coherently. In this case, one is expected to believe you that ~ on entering "heaven" ~ the love one had for a spouse or children and compassion one ought to have knowing that they are being tortured in burning agony forever ~ is designated as some kind of "crap" that disappears and is ignored? It doesn't seem to have any psychological truth to it.

Originally posted by bbarr
So, in Heaven there won't be threads like this one? Thank God.

Finally, someone who understands! I don't know how much longer I would have been able to endure the manure at this thread.


endure the manure... I'm a poet, and didn't know it. 🙂

Originally posted by FMF
Well sidestep the question by all means. It's OK. That people in "heaven" might be unaffected by the knowledge that a beloved spouse or child might (meanwhile) be being tortured forever in "hell" strikes a false note in terms of compassion and in terms of morality. It's a question about a detail that points to incoherency and even fabrication: i.e it does not se ...[text shortened]... ing true. But you can dodge the question by labelling it "inflammatory" if you feel the need to.

Why do you keep using "eternal torture or tortured forever" instead of torment or punishment? Did you get that "torture" idea from your father the devil?

Originally posted by RJHinds
Why do you keep using "eternal torture or tortured forever" instead of torment or punishment?

For the purpose of these recent discussions on the morality of such cruel and violent vengeance, I got the concept of eternal torture from sonship, and during weeks and weeks of discussing it, he has not once questioned this terminology, and nor did you when divegeester asked you if you thought he deserved to be tortured, and neither has Grampy Bobby on the numerous occasions he has been confronted about it.

Originally posted by RJHinds
Did you get that "torture" idea from your father the devil?

Wut? 😕

Originally posted by lemon lime
How many threads have you started just to complain about hell?

Many aledged Christians here believe that their version of god has created and maintains an incinerator which is purpose built for the eternal (not just a long time - ETERNAL) torture of all the billions of human beings who do not believe in him - clearly god will keep this multitude alive to ensure the continuity of the suffering. Some have also quoted scripture that states that Christ and his angels will be watching this hollocaust, which is a far worse vile and terrible crime than beheading someone on the internet because they committed the same thought crime - spiritual infidelity.

How many threads should be sufficient to speak out against this do you think?

Originally posted by RJHinds
Why do you keep using "eternal torture or tortured forever" instead of torment or punishment? Did you get that "torture" idea from your father the devil?

Do you somehow interpret being kept alive for eternity in a lake of hellfire as anything other than torture?

Originally posted by lemon lime
... I'm a poet, and didn't know it.

You are certainly something that you are unaware of.

Originally posted by divegeester
Many aledged Christians here believe that their version of god has created and maintains an incinerator which is purpose built for the eternal (not just a long time - ETERNAL) torture of all the billions of human beings who do not believe in him - clearly god will keep this multitude alive to ensure the continuity of the suffering. Some have also quoted ...[text shortened]... al infidelity.

How many threads should be sufficient to speak out against this do you think?

Is this really "a question of honesty", or is it a question of what you are willing to believe? If the thought of anyone going to hell is just too horrible for you to imagine, then tell yourself there is no such place. There, see? Problem solved... easy peasy lemon squeezey.

Tell yourself that hell is simply a metaphor for people who go online, and allow themselves to be tormented by goofs who think reality will bend to their will and become whatever they wish it to be.