12 Dec 06
Originally posted by ivanhoeAre you taking sides as she is Catholic and he is not? Surely his friend needs a friend through something like this. The only foreplay a woman like this knows is four hours of begging and a trip to the jewelry store.
My advice is to stay out of it if your friend hasn't asked for help. Has he ?
God have mercy on that poor man.
12 Dec 06
1 edit
Originally posted by PawnokeyholeReligion should not be in the business of running people's intimate lives, how and with whom they should bed with and how long. The church went 1500 years without such nonsense and only in the last few hundred years have they done religious marraige ceremonies.
Yet another example of entrenched religious beliefs constructively contributing to human happiness.
They should get out of that aspect of people's lives altogether. Professional do-gooders have no business running peoples home life.
12 Dec 06
Originally posted by Hand of HecateI am a divorced atheist. My advice is that there is no need to use violence or find excuses for a divorce. If he wants out then leave. If he wants to keep the marriage then he needs to go for councelling (both of them). Councelling does not always work but its better than doing nothing.
I would like to help my friend, but, outside of acquiring a shovel and a bag of lime, I'm at a loss. Any guidance you can give me would be appreciated.
You haven't mentioned whether there are kids involved as that is the most complicated part of a divorce.
The worst thing to do in a marriage is what both of them appear to be doing. Claim you have given up while still hanging on based on a pathetic excuse. Either you must stick with it and work on it with all your effort or get out. 'Hanging in there' just doesn't work.
12 Dec 06
It is sad when the structure that God put in place ends up all twisted. No good can come from it. Your friend, who sounds like a great guy, has allowed his God given right to be taken from him. He is the priest in the house. He is the head in the house under Christ and should not be subject to his wife.
She claims to be a devoted Catholic yet by her fruits I’d say she’s a hypocrite and a liar, merely obeying her father instruction for division.
Jesus said that a house divided against itself cannot stand. It is clear that this house does not have it’s foundations built on Christ and collapse is inevitable. I would recommend that this friend of yours issue her with divorce papers and in so doing find the peace and rest God Almighty intended for him.
12 Dec 06
Originally posted by Hand of HecateGod did not make your friend responsible for his wife's actions. She has free will. There is not a question of allowing the wife to leave -- if she wishes to leave, she will. There is nothing your friend can do about it (and God will not interfere directly), although they both may be quite sad.
The reason I posted this in Spirituality is because my friend's main conflict is not that divorce is the only way this issue will resolve itself, but, rather, that he strongly feels that divorce will violate his relationship with God. He feels that by allowing his wife to leave him, which seems inevitable, he has somehow not only failed her, but God ...[text shortened]... him is all I can do, but, I thought someone in spirituality might have a different perspective.
If your friend has done all he can to heal the relationship in a sensible way -- I don't mean by giving in to her tantrums, but rather by suggesting counseling, by talking about this issues, etc. -- then he can be at peace with himself and with God.
It seems to me they have both been tested in this case. He may be the one passing, while she has failed. That's painful, but such is life.
12 Dec 06
He has left the house as to stay means being subjected to a constant verbal assualt from his wife. He intends to stay with his parents for the next few weeks and see if some time apart helps them reconcile.
Sadly his wife refuses to go to counciling with the possible exception of meeting with a priest together. He's very reluctant to meet with a priest for reasons that seem obvious, but, he has not stated.
So far, all I've done is offer him support and told him if he needs anything to let me know. He seems in slightly better spirits, but, we're still worried about him.
12 Dec 06
2 edits
Originally posted by kirksey957No, I'm not the one taking sides. One shouln't involve oneself in other people's business if these people, in this case HoH's friend and his wife, haven't explicitely asked for help. I assume the wife hasn't asked for HoH's help and seeing as it is she wouln't approve of it either, I'm afraid. Even in the case they both indeed asked, I would seriously advise HoH to think twice before he reacts to such a request in a positive way.
Are you taking sides as she is Catholic and he is not? Surely his friend needs a friend through something like this. The only foreplay a woman like this knows is four hours of begging and a trip to the jewelry store.
God have mercy on that poor man.
Why ?
Well, since HoH has indicated that he isn't particularly fond of the lady in question, it is he who already has taken sides, simply because it is his friend and he doesn't like his friend's wife. He will be met with suspicion and distrust by her. Since the situation is as it is, HoH's attitude and feelings towards the lady in question will become a pressing matter and most probably a serious problem in case he decides to "help".
Instead of solving problems one creates problems this way and one will make things even more complicated to involve others in the problematic situation. Escalation and worsening of the situation will be the most probable outcome of such action.
Marriage counselling is a serious business and should be handled by professionals who do not have any personal relations at all with the ones asking for help.
Some people simply want to discuss matters. Most of the time they do not want others to interfere in their marriage at all.
The only serious advice one can give in such cases, besides talking to one's friend to simply give him the opportunity to get things of his chest, is for him to seek professional counselling.
12 Dec 06
Originally posted by ivanhoeWhat about advising him to pray to Jesus for guidance? Are you saying that wouldn't be serious advice?
The only serious advice one can give in such cases, besides talking to one's friend to simply give him the opportunity to get things of his chest, is for him to seek professional counselling.
12 Dec 06
Originally posted by Hand of HecateI think you're doing all you can. It's good that your friend is wise enough to take a break from the marriage. I see that as a positive sign.
He has left the house as to stay means being subjected to a constant verbal assualt from his wife. He intends to stay with his parents for the next few weeks and see if some time apart helps them reconcile.
Sadly his wife refuses to go to counciling with the possible exception of meeting with a priest together. He's very reluctant to meet with a ...[text shortened]... ing to let me know. He seems in slightly better spirits, but, we're still worried about him.
Perhaps at some point it will be helpful for them to go to a priest, if for no other reason than to give them both a chance to be honest with each other about what they want...
12 Dec 06
Originally posted by Hand of HecateThe wife said your friend's grandmother will burn in hell. So will he because he drinks beer after work, unless he becomes a Catholic. He has left the house, you say, because of constant verbal abuse.
He has left the house as to stay means being subjected to a constant verbal assualt from his wife. He intends to stay with his parents for the next few weeks and see if some time apart helps them reconcile.
Sadly his wife refuses to go to counciling with the possible exception of meeting with a priest together. He's very reluctant to meet with a ...[text shortened]... ing to let me know. He seems in slightly better spirits, but, we're still worried about him.
You say this happened over the last couple of years. Is that literally true? Were things fine before that? If so, did she have a big disappointment several years back? About the time this started?
IMHO, this has nothing to do with religion, by the way. Religion is just a handy tool to beat her husband with -- perhaps the only way she feels superior to him. She apparently needs to feel superior for some reason, which is often a mark of low self-esteem.
A priest is unlikely to help unless you are really lucky and he is also a gifted lay psychologist. Your instinct is right that she will try to get the priest to declare she is right. A marriage counselor may also not be enough.
12 Dec 06
Originally posted by spruce112358This is a relatively recent development... in the last 4 months say. He's left the house more to give her some time to herself and hopefully lead to a reconcilliation. I think he's concerned that he'll say something unrecoverable if the stay under the same roof. I think this is a wise course.
The wife said your friend's grandmother will burn in hell. So will he because he drinks beer after work, unless he becomes a Catholic. He has left the house, you say, because of constant verbal abuse.
You say this happened over the last couple of years. Is that literally true? Were things fine before that? If so, did she have a big disappointment sev ...[text shortened]... ill try to get the priest to declare she is right. A marriage counselor may also not be enough.
I suspect your right though, religion is just the excuse to demolish a relationship she is unhappy with.
All I can really do is support him. Ivanhoe seems to think I'm planning on riding in on a white stallion and save the day. This isn't the case, I just want to support a friend in need and perhaps offer him some guidance that will help him come to terms with the problem he faces.
12 Dec 06
Originally posted by Hand of HecateHoH:
A good friend of mine has been married for 16 years. He's currently 39 and loves his wife very much. Personally I think she's a loud mouthed, know it all, self absorbed, tool, but, I don't have to go home to her.
This friend of mine is one of the best guys you'll ever meet, kind hearted, generous to a fault, and never a bad word to say about an ...[text shortened]... a bag of lime, I'm at a loss. Any guidance you can give me would be appreciated.
Sorry to hear of your friend having such a hard time of it. What should be heaven on earth--- given the wrong combination of factors--- can become hell on earth. No wonder one of the old-timers said:
Proverbs 21:9
Better to live on a corner of the roof than share a house with a quarrelsome wife.
Unfortnuately, your friend is in an institution which allows for divorce under extremely narrow conditions. The parameters are not there for the purpose of limiting a person's options for happiness; rather they exist for ensuring happiness. What may appear to be relief (divorce) would (given the limited information offered here) actually induce greater suffering for your friend than even his current state provides.
When pressure outside the soul exceeds the content and capacity of the soul, stress ensues. My advice for your friend is the same advice I give myself in times of pressure: when the situation I am facing is greater than I can handle (exceeding my resources to cope), I know that I am suffering for discipline. The Bible tells us that God never allows us to be tested beyond the resources He has provided us to handle. Therefore, when I find that I am in that exact situation--- regardless of the details--- I know I've somehow wandered from His table of resource.
The sin may be directly related to the situation (which, for your friend, doesn't appear to be the case), or simply a case of not paying attention to one's own spiritual growth. Once confessed, any residual suffering becomes an opportunity for growth and blessing. Whatever the case, the protocol plan demands precision in the spiritual life: there is only a right way to do a right thing. One cannot do a right thing in a wrong way, nor a wrong thing in a right way and remain "growing in grace and the knowledge of the Lord Jesus Christ" as commanded.
Pursuing divorce would be a wrong decision from a position of weakness, further compounding (what he and those in his periphery consider to be) his problems. God does not expect His children to 'grin and bear' their way through life: happiness is the objective of life. Yet the cart must follow the horse if progress is to be made toward that life of over-flowing joy.
We all have decisions to make, regardless of the situations in which we find ourselves. Solving a bad situation (bitch-on-wheels for a wife) with sin (unwarranted divorce) will most assuredly lead to a worse situation. Your friend will be in a better spot once he takes stock of his own situation--- the one between him and God, not him and his wife. Once his relationship with God is right, any situation he finds himself in will be handled with grace, poise and capacity.