Spirituality
14 Jun 14
14 Jun 14
2 edits
Originally posted by CalJustThe Christian blogger would tell you that he walks and talks with God. (As a caveat, I was able to twist his arm enough to get him to comment back to me that "God rarely speaks in an audible way in modern times." But he insists God gives him thoughts that he could not have formed through natural means, thereby proving the supernatural power of God.)
I do not agree with that, so the rest of your question falls away.
How did I do?
So if you believe you walk with the Lord, and you disagree on some theological matter with someone who likewise claims to walk with the Lord, does it follow that at least one of you is deceiving himself?
(I once had an exchange of emails with the host of a local Christian radio talk show. One of the things I pointed out to him was that a certain theological point he likes to make on air is at odds with something said by a preacher who had a time slot on the same radio station. I asked the host, "Do you think God is pleased that Christians have differences in their theology?" His answer to this particular question of mine was a single word: "Yes." )
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14 Jun 14
Originally posted by CalJustYour reference to prayers being answered is a little puzzling to me, because it sounds like a line of argumentation based on looking for the most plausible explanation of unlikely events.
Absolutely.
Yet I understand faith that is based on experience(s) is more immediately attained, without going though a reasoning process and assessment of likelihoods. It is like satori, enlightenment.
Such assessments are typically provisional and subject to revision based on new information. It seems quite indirect and mutable. Would you care to clear this up for me? Did you mean that the unlikelihood convinced you, or was the direct bestowal of faith one of the answered prayers?
14 Jun 14
Originally posted by CalJustThank you... "27 Maldon Manor, Garsfontein Rd, Pretoria." Appears to asume known locations: an address on earth?
Sure thing, Bobby.
Since eternity has no beginning and no end, my current address in this portion of eternity is 27 Maldon Manor, Garsfontein Rd, Pretoria.
14 Jun 14
CalJust, since you named this thread 'An Experiment,' I would like to propose an experiment...
Pray this way: "Lord, You know who the Christian blogger mentioned by Paul Dirac is. The blogger believes the original manuscripts of the Bible were inerrant. But You have told me that this is not the case. I ask You to impress upon the blogger with Your Spirit that he is wrong about this, and to have him publish a retraction at His blog."
14 Jun 14
Originally posted by Paul Dirac IIOnly if you are stuck in dualistic thinking.
So if you believe you walk with the Lord, and you disagree on some theological matter with someone who likewise claims to walk with the Lord, does it follow that at least one of you is deceiving himself?
Remember the six blind men and the elephant? Each one was convinced that he had the whole picture. Yet they were all right - and they were all wrong.
Btw, I don't think God is pleased at the differences between Christians. Perhaps a little amused, rather than saddened, at our pig-headedness and pride.
I once lived in a relatively small mining town (Population 12000) which had 27 (count them: twenty seven!) Christian churches, not counting the Mormons and Christian Scientists. I said to the one pastor: if Jesus were to write a letter to the Church in Phalaborwa today, as he wrote to the Church in Corinth, in whose letter box would it arrive? A rhetorical question? By no means. "In ours, of course" he said.
14 Jun 14
1 edit
Originally posted by CalJustI have linked to this before, but I don't know if you saw it:
Btw, I don't think God is pleased at the differences between Christians. Perhaps a little amused, rather than saddened, at our pig-headedness and pride.
http://funki.com.ua/ru/portfolio/lab/world-religions-tree/
If you click on the + sign to the left, the graphic zooms up such that you can read the lettering. It is a time chart of the history of schism within religion, with Christianity on the right side.
Originally posted by Paul Dirac IIOriginally posted by Paul Dirac II
Do you believe in the results-getting power of petitionary prayer?
When multiple believers gather together to pray for a result, is the result more likely to pan out than if only one of them prayed for it?
Do you believe God is absolutely sovereign? I.e., does He refuse to cede even a small amount of sovereignty to the will of humans? (If "Yes," the ...[text shortened]... at early believers to a perfect revelation, and later believers to a somewhat shoddy copy of it?[/b]
A certain Christian blogger grudgingly admits that there are minor errors in modern translations of the Bible, but insists that the original manuscripts were totally error-free. If you agree with him on that--and I did say "if"--how well does this mesh with the Bible's statement that God "is no respecter of persons"? In other words, why would God treat early believers to a perfect revelation, and later believers to a somewhat shoddy copy of it?
Paul, your contributions to this forum are always well thought through and as objective as they are in the Only Chess Forum. CJ, if I may interject a comment in response to Paul's concluding comment: One of Sovereign God's Divine Attributes is His Justice which means He is fair. Immutability, another of God's Divine Attributes, cannot deny or alter itself; therefore, He has always been fair since Eden with the first man and woman and is fair today Saturday, June 14, 2014, and will continue to be fair with the human race in the future. Specifically, God the Holy Spirit gives spiritual gifts at the moment of the new birth [regeneration] to all believers in Christ. One of these is an academic/communication gift accurately referred to as the gift of pastor/teacher. It enables the recipient to effectively study the Word of God in the original languages in which it was written [Hebrew, Aramaic, Classical and Koine Greek]. And enables a pastor/teacher doing so as a full time ministry career to be able to understand the Isagogics, Exegetical and Categorical Promises and Doctrines and Rationales and Applications it contains. Why? One of Christ's final words at the Golgotha Crucifixion to His disciples was "Feed My sheep". It's the turnkey provision which provides the spiritual food essential to the growth from infancy to maturity for all believers hungry for truth.
14 Jun 14
Originally posted by JS357A tough question to answer, JS.
Yet I understand faith that is based on experience(s) is more immediately attained, without going though a reasoning process and assessment of likelihoods. It is like satori, enlightenment.
Such assessments are typically provisional and subject to revision based on new information. It seems quite indirect and mutable. Would you care to clear this up for me? ...[text shortened]... the unlikelihood convinced you, or was the direct bestowal of faith one of the answered prayers?
There are several different ways in which Faith is discussed in the Bible. Jesus sometimes said: according to your faith be it unto you, and to his disciples he said they could not do a certain deed because of their lack of faith. This seems to indicate that having Faith is a prerequisite for answered prayer.
Yet I cannot in all good conscience claim that in these instances I had "more faith" or "supernatural faith" than in other incidents when nothing happened. All I can say is that these were not trivial occasions, they were certainly not revised later when more information was available, etc. Without going into specifics I have to leave it at that.
Again, the question I answered to twhitehead was "why do I believe in God" and my answer was that it is not because of something I read in the Bible (which only made me fearful) but because of certain personal experiences. I do not presume to build a theology around it, nor can I explain how it works, and provide you with a recipe and "Seven Easy Steps to get your Prayers answered!"
There are many books about prayer, some good and useful and many so-so. One book in particular, about George Mueller who build many orphanages and experienced remarkable answers to prayer, was always intimidating to me because I felt so inferior: why don't these things happen to me? Until I realised that they actually did!
Back to your post, the last question. I'm not sure. Maybe there WAS a "direct bestowal of faith" beforehand, but if so, I was not aware of it. In the final analysis, all faith comes from God in the first place anyway, and then the faith does its work.
Or something like that...
14 Jun 14
Originally posted by twhiteheadGB fabricates doctrines. There is no teaching in the Bible that refers to eternal addresses or anything of the sort. The saints go to be with Christ [yes that is referred to as for ever and ever], and the evil are destroyed.
Now see if you can find Grampys eternal address in street view.