@kellyjay saidYou trinitarians, it is hard to keep up with what it is you all believe. The trinity doctrine is nonsensical at the best of times. Let me try again…
NO AGAIN, stop changing the words to fit what you think is being said and read what is said. Three different people, one being, One God, God is One.
Three different people make up this one god
They are NOT co-equal
The father is top dog, Jesus second, holy spirit third?
So the Father is ultimately in charge, not Jesus.
I’ve been a Christian 30 years and I’m just trying to figure it out.
13 Jan 22
@divegeester saidWhen I write, I speak for me; now, if you are not the one speaking for you, that is on you; maybe you feel the need to be the voice of others, I don't. Maybe there is one here to who when they speak, they speak for you; it isn't something I think would be healthy, as that would rob you of your voice. Lumping people together into groups so you can belittle them stops them from being individuals, the very thing we spoke about earlier.
You said “no one is saying they are not separate people”
You are mistaken, sonship believes that. So no it is YOU who are speaking for him.
Right?
13 Jan 22
@divegeester saidIt isn't hard; you have to listen to what is said instead of rewriting it to suit you.
You trinitarians, it is hard to keep up with what it is you all believe. The trinity doctrine is nonsensical at the best of times. Let me try again…
Three different people make up this one god
They are NOT co-equal
The father is top dog, Jesus second, holy spirit third?
So the Father is ultimately in charge, not Jesus.
I’ve been a Christian 30 years and I’m just trying to figure it out.
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@josephw
Thre posts coming up for you Joseph.
The word "trinity" is not used as a substitute for another word in the Bible.
Trinity is a descriptive relative to the Godhead.
I would say your pleading is a little special and subjective. It is objected to by some Bible readers as strenuously as if its use defiles Scripture. Look at Divegeester or Galveston. They would howl at any mention of the word.
I think I am a little more sympathetic. "Trinity" came about because believers were forced to say something about the Deity of Christ. They felt that they could not be silent to the criticisms. Rather than to speak nothing, they chose to speak something to defend relentless attacks on the nature of Christ's Person from all sides.
This sympathy to the earlier brothers I would apply to latter brothers too. The issue is a dumbing down of salvation to undercut the extent of "so great a salvation" .
Introduction of words will cause some misunderstanding ie "God-ized" and "Son-ized". But the dumbing down of the Gospel, under appreciating God's purpose ALSO has its perils.
MIllions of Christians only believe that God forgives and takes us away to a happy place. That is all. In the meantime we do good like we knew should have before - turn over new leaf self improve. - "For me to live is Christ" sounds strange to many.
And to many more God is the God of death - meaning you have to DIE to go be with God. This is horrendous. While some truth there is to Paul wanting to depart to be with Christ, he desired not to appear before God unclothed (for God does not want that). But he expected to be "clothed upon" and swallowed up by divine life.
How many Christians only see dying to go to heaven forever as God's destiny for Christians
So at some risk of miunderstanding, with the more mature and ready for a deeper look at the eternal purpose of God, to have sons is emphasized. Now if some people are eager to misunderstand regardless, there is not much that can be done for them.
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Whereas, "killing power" is a good description of a laundry detergent that kills 99.9% of bacteria.
That is a good analogy. Some detergents have something they call "Bio-degradable". Well, we might say the Holy Spirit is "Zoe-degradable". That divine life that we receive has a terminating power.
Put to death the practices of the body through the Holy Spirit - a concept Paul wrote under inspiration.
"But if you live according to the flesh you are about to die, but if by the Spirit you put to death the practices of the body you will live." (Rom. 8:13)
So then why cannot we think of this as "killing power" of the Holy Spirit?
This is NOT asceticism. The book of Colossians makes that clear.
Here again a kind of "killing power" is seen in Col. 3:5.
"Put to death therefore your members which are on the earth: fornication, uncleaness, passion, evil desire, and greediness, which is idolatry; Because of which things the wrath of God is coming upon the sons of disobedience."
There are those among us who REJOICE that what caused us habitually to be children of God's wrath can be put to death. And if the phrase "killing power" offends you we don't wish to go out of our way to offend you.
However, you will also not deprive us of our joy that such things via Christ can be terminated. In the Holy Spirit and the work of the cross of Christ things can be "put to death." We can move away from being children of wrath.
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"Does this verse represent a presumptious overreach of man concerning his relationship to God? Yes or No."
"To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne."
It would if a mere mortal had said it.
What's more, what has that verse to do with killing power?
Also, it is taken(quoted) out of context.
A text without a context is a pretext.
It was spoken by the Son of God.
It is repeated and stood upon along with other "exceedingly great and precious promises" of God.
We reserve the right to stand upon what Christ promised [in complete context] without shame.
I did not elaborate on Revelation 3:21. So I would wish you to not jump to some conclusion about that. Standing on what is on God's heart to do in and with His redeemed is not overreach. It is the reaction of faith.
It is also the reaction of obedience for which the Christian should not boast. The Lord said when we have obeyed we should realize we have only done what was commanded us to do. There is no elitism in this simple obedience to overcome through Him.
"He does not thank the slave because he did the things which were ordered, does he? So also you, when you do all thie things which are ordered you, say, We are unprofitable slaves; we have done what we ought to have done." (Luke 17:10)
For Christians to overcome through His all sufficient grace to be co-heirs with Him is only to do what we OUGHT to have done. It is not to rise above the standard. It is only to come up TO the standard expected.
13 Jan 22
@divegeester saidWoW, the nerve.
Three VERY long posts by sonship
2 minutes between the first and the last.
13 Jan 22
@kellyjay saidYou said “no one is saying they are not separate people”
When I write, I speak for me; now, if you are not the one speaking for you, that is on you; maybe you feel the need to be the voice of others, I don't.
I said that sonship does.
Saying “no one”indicates that you mean “no one” as in nobody, as in you are speaking for all trinitarians.
Do you want to modify this claim you made?
13 Jan 22
1 edit
@kellyjay saidIt is mearly a continuing observation of what other posters have observed on Sonship’s tendency to pre-prepare some copy/pasted material from elsewhere, adapt it and then dump it in multiple posts as a sort of shout down of disagreement.
WoW, the nerve.
13 Jan 22
@sonship
Trust me. I understand perfectly what you mean.
It's just that one can't get any deeper in their understanding about what it means to be in Christ than with what the inspired words say.
"Killing power" and "Zoe-degradable" are not inspired.