05 Apr 11
Originally posted by finneganContinuing to blather on about the alleged rewrites of the New Testament, I see. You're a one-note symphony of yawn, dude.
Oddly the people who lived with Jesus and knew him personally hung around Jerusalem for many years expecting the end to come pretty soon. When there was an unexpected delay, then the story had to be re-written and so indeed it was and will continue to be until the end of time, which is a bit like the Restaurant at the End of the Universe I suppose, and ther ...[text shortened]... thers will be saying hang on, there are some signs still mssing, it's not due yeeeeeeeeeeeet!
05 Apr 11
Originally posted by twhiteheadLet me clearify as you seem to not get the point. I was refering to the spiritual insight that we should have to not only see these things "clearly and with understanding" that we're being warned about but also have the insight to "act" on them.
So you are changing your stance now. In the other thread you assured me that I would not be able to see them due to my lack of spiritual sight. Now you say I can see them. Interesting though that you were unable to point them out to me last time. All you ever came up with heresay and a feeling you got from watching the news.
Can you see the ones you me ...[text shortened]... have they not yet come to pass? If you can see them, are you able to mention what you have seen?
Again the signs are cleary stated and explained in the Bible and are clearly being seen by all in the news daily.
If one decides to not see this, then one is not using spiritual wisdom to act on them.
05 Apr 11
Originally posted by galveston75If you can see them, why do you have such difficulty telling me about them? Whenever I have asked for details, you mumble about how you have heard people talking about them or how 'its clear to those who can see' etc. You seem incapable of simply listing what signs you have seen and describing them. Its as if you are sworn to secrecy, or subject to a gag order yet here you are creating threads about them.
Let me clearify as you seem to not get the point. I was refering to the spiritual insight that we should have to not only see these things "clearly and with understanding" that we're being warned about but also have the insight to "act" on them.
Again the signs are cleary stated and explained in the Bible and are clearly being seen by all in the news d ...[text shortened]... .
If one decides to not see this, then one is not using spiritual wisdom to act on them.
So. I will ask you again, as you have yet to answer, have you seen any signs related to the OP, and if so what are they?
05 Apr 11
Originally posted by FreakyKBHIn this case I have of course quoted the source without comment about re-writing so I think you are nursing a grudge and not reading properly.
Continuing to blather on about the alleged rewrites of the New Testament, I see. You're a one-note symphony of yawn, dude.
9 The Lord isn’t really being slow about his promise, as some people think.
So what is Peter blathering about here then? It seems to me he is talking (writing) to people among whom the discussion has been taking place about the length of time they have been waiting for the second coming and putting them into the mind set of accepting it is not coming just yet. Indeed if the point is worth his while to make, it must be a topical one surely? At this time the evidence is that people were expecting an imminent deliverance. Tell me I am wrong?
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05 Apr 11
Originally posted by galveston75Maybe it would help if you would describe exactly what you are doing to act on these signs.
Let me clearify as you seem to not get the point. I was refering to the spiritual insight that we should have to not only see these things "clearly and with understanding" that we're being warned about but also have the insight to "act" on them.
Again the signs are cleary stated and explained in the Bible and are clearly being seen by all in the news d ...[text shortened]... .
If one decides to not see this, then one is not using spiritual wisdom to act on them.
06 Apr 11
Originally posted by Agergyou are limiting your answer to "1's" that have achieved something positive in the eyes of society, I think Dowards point was more general, and possibly pointing to the fact that there is much (uneccesary) lonliness felt on the part of spiritual adherents who have embraced their faith to the point of excluding others from their lives because of this "embracing".
nah...1 is a factor of every damned number you can think of...everybody wants to be friends with 1! Also 1 commutes with everything too! Lonely!? hell no, 1 could win every damned popularity contest ever conceived!
Please tell me if I have not fully understood your point. You too, Doward, feel free to let mo know if I am on the wrong track.
From experience I have found my spirutal path to be lonely, as I imagine it is for others. (i know for a fact that it is totally true for some people I know), so I think Doward has a point.
06 Apr 11
Originally posted by twhiteheadAgain my friend, read Matthew the 24th chapter and see for yourself.
If you can see them, why do you have such difficulty telling me about them? Whenever I have asked for details, you mumble about how you have heard people talking about them or how 'its clear to those who can see' etc. You seem incapable of simply listing what signs you have seen and describing them. Its as if you are sworn to secrecy, or subject to a gag ...[text shortened]... as you have yet to answer, have you seen any signs related to the OP, and if so what are they?
06 Apr 11
1 edit
Originally posted by karoly aczelWhat I had to say wasn't particularly profound in any spiritual sense; indeed as a response to a dry post of mine I didn't recognise Doward's post as having the dimensions you are seeing.
you are limiting your answer to "1's" that have achieved something positive in the eyes of society, I think Dowards point was more general, and possibly pointing to the fact that there is much (uneccesary) lonliness felt on the part of spiritual adherents who have embraced their faith to the point of excluding others from their lives because of this "e for a fact that it is totally true for some people I know), so I think Doward has a point.
As far as this thread goes the OP 'prophecy' is totally ridiculous - indeed Galv might as well have said the Bible says that s*** happens for all the good it does us - his so called "sign" (like most other "signs" ) could be pattern matched to any number of events that have occured in the past, there's no reason to even admit the possibility it has any direct bearing on events taking place now.
06 Apr 11
Originally posted by finneganGlad you asked.
In this case I have of course quoted the source without comment about re-writing so I think you are nursing a grudge and not reading properly.
9 The Lord isn’t really being slow about his promise, as some people think.
So what is Peter blathering about here then? It seems to me he is talking (writing) to people among whom the discussion ha ...[text shortened]... his time the evidence is that people were expecting an imminent deliverance. Tell me I am wrong?
Far from blathering, Peter is expressing a few important thoughts here, key among them is the love of God toward all--- not solely believers. In the original language, there is nearly a pleading tone to the patience God is exhibiting in delaying the always-eminent return of Christ. I say "always-eminent" because since His ascension to Heaven, the return of Christ has only been predicated by one thing: the decision by God the Father.
This whole business of signs is expressly poo-pooed in the Bible, with many well-meaning but ultimately bone-headed Christians taking passages completely out of context in their vain and desperate efforts to somehow certify their faith.
Peter addresses such impertinence in this passage, where, in the verse previous as well as those which follow, he talks about those who have taken to considering God tardy, or that He somehow lacks perfect timing. Peter reminds such foolish thinkers that the relative aspect of time (created for man's convenience) is not the best prism through which to consider God's action--- especially when the timeline used is full of false deadlines of short-sighted man.
Instead of re-setting the timeline, Peter reminds the believers to stop looking for signs of a dramatic return/rescue, but to instead...
"... grow in grace and in the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. To Him be glory, both now and forever."
06 Apr 11
Originally posted by FreakyKBHExcellent -
Glad you asked.
Far from blathering, Peter is expressing a few important thoughts here, key among them is the love of God toward all--- not solely believers. In the original language, there is nearly a pleading tone to the patience God is exhibiting in delaying the always-eminent return of Christ. I say "always-eminent" because since His ascension to ...[text shortened]... he knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. To Him be glory, both now and forever."
This whole business of signs is expressly poo-pooed in the Bible, with many well-meaning but ultimately bone-headed Christians taking passages completely out of context in their vain and desperate efforts to somehow certify their faith.
so you would appear then to be at one with me in challenging Galveston75, who wrote:
Again the signs are cleary stated and explained in the Bible and are clearly being seen by all in the news daily.
If one decides to not see this, then one is not using spiritual wisdom to act on them.
and I am not clear even why you think what I wrote is at odds with what you wrote in the context of this thread.
06 Apr 11
1 edit
Originally posted by galveston75Well it seems a greater authority than I has ruled on your case as follows:
Let me clearify as you seem to not get the point. I was refering to the spiritual insight that we should have to not only see these things "clearly and with understanding" that we're being warned about but also have the insight to "act" on them.
Again the signs are cleary stated and explained in the Bible and are clearly being seen by all in the news d ...[text shortened]... .
If one decides to not see this, then one is not using spiritual wisdom to act on them.
This whole business of signs is expressly poo-pooed in the Bible, with many well-meaning but ultimately bone-headed Christians taking passages completely out of context in their vain and desperate efforts to somehow certify their faith.
I think you fit the category of ultimately bone-headed though these are not my words of course.
Take it up with FreakyKBH.
06 Apr 11
2 edits
Originally posted by finnegan=========================================
Oddly the people who lived with Jesus and knew him personally hung around Jerusalem for many years expecting the end to come pretty soon. When there was an unexpected delay, then the story had to be re-written and so indeed it was and will continue to be until the end of time, which is a bit like the Restaurant at the End of the Universe I suppose, and ther thers will be saying hang on, there are some signs still mssing, it's not due yeeeeeeeeeeeet!
Oddly the people who lived with Jesus and knew him personally hung around Jerusalem for many years expecting the end to come pretty soon. When there was an unexpected delay, then the story had to be re-written and so indeed it was and will continue to be until the end of time, which is a bit like the Restaurant at the End of the Universe I suppose, and there will be people saying "told you so," but others will be saying hang on, there are some signs still mssing, it's not due yeeeeeeeeeeeet!
========================================
What "story" had to be re-written ?
The New Testament has not been re-written to accomodate for the longer than expected return of Christ to the earth physically.
Theologies were adjusted for sure. But no "story" was re-written. If you have proof that the "story" was re-written tell us where we can read the early story and the latter re-written story.
Some of you critics just shoot off things from the hip which have no basis in fact - "Oh, Jesus did not come back in the first century Soooo the STORY was re-written. And they keep re-writing the STORY."
The story - Matthew, Mark, Luke, John has remained the same essentially the same story ( copyists' inconclusive typos on over 23,000 some copied manuscipts not included ).
The "story" is the same old story as far back as the New Testament has existed.