As a Christian...

Originally posted by checkbaiter
I do not believe the lake of fire exists ..yet. But it will, and it will be no ordinary fire, it will be something that destroys spirit. It will destroy demons and Satan and all who will end up there. But they will burn up and exist no more...
The everlasting punishment is separation from God forever because they will not exist, they will be ashes.
Thi ...[text shortened]... y begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.
NKJV

Yeah, this is what I mean, I have had this opinion for years now. I agree with what you're saying.

Originally posted by Agerg
I see...so is fire required to destroy spirits? Ok ... so what things that spirits are made of are flammable?

Well, the one thing that man knew about back then that destroyed things utterly was fire. Since the hereafter is a supernatural place, I'm assuming the lake of fire would be something supernatural, but yes, something that is capable of destroying the soul.

Originally posted by checkbaiter
You are assuming that soul and spirit are one and the same? The soul is simply breath life. When one dies, that life is gone. Animals have soul. The myth that a soul lives on, is just that..myth.
Unbelievers are only body and soul, no spirit.

Not sure I agree or even understand what you're saying here. We all have souls and no, they don't just poof out when we die. The soul IS what still exists when we die and is what experiences the afterlife. I'm guessing what you are referring to as spirit must be the Holy Spirit, since you feel that unbelievers do not have this.

Originally posted by Hand of Hecate
Hmm... I always thought of you as a godless heathen... and a harlot.

A godless heathen? No.

A harlot? Well, that's a lot closer to the truth, but what's past is past.

"But I'm trying reeeaal hard to be the shepherd."

Originally posted by Suzianne
Well, the one thing that man knew about back then that destroyed things utterly was fire. Since the hereafter is a supernatural place, I'm assuming the lake of fire would be something supernatural, but yes, something that is capable of destroying the soul.

Ok...then *which parts* of the soul are flammable (some part of it must be because fire seems to burn it)? Also, (directing you towards http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Combustion for an idea of what is entailed in the burning of matter) what is the average length of time it takes for a soul subjected to the flames of hell to be fully expended? Also, if your priest tells you souls will burn forever would you be inclined to think that

a) souls have an infinite amount of matter (equipped with pain receptors) to burn, or
b) that "G"od will keep regenerating them before they burn out completely (for all eternity), or
c) something else (explain please)

??

Originally posted by VoidSpirit
saying "he fulfilled" it is semantic nonsense. he changed it. period.

You're wrong. Again. Period.

A Covenant is an agreement; a contract; between a Sovereign and those He rules over. A Covenant can be fulfilled and, as the Sovereign decreed, absolutely is fulfilled... only for those of us who agree to the New Covenant contract.

It's a very remedial concept, but I can see how a (hypothetical) frustrated, clueless person that doesn't understand the concept (or want to understand it) might call it "nonsense."

You should ask yourself (don't ask us, we already know the answer) why it is that you so eagerly and ceaselessly spend precious personal time attacking a belief system that you neither respect, nor know much of anything about.

It's as if you're a glutton for punishment. I picture you as Barney Fife, pitifully trying to draw his pistol, only to shoot himself in the foot. Over and over. All the more eager with each toe-piercing pull of the trigger.

Originally posted by Suzianne
Not sure I agree or even understand what you're saying here. We all have souls and no, they don't just poof out when we die. The soul IS what still exists when we die and is what experiences the afterlife. I'm guessing what you are referring to as spirit must be the Holy Spirit, since you feel that unbelievers do not have this.

The Dead Are Dead Until the Rapture or Resurrection

http://www.truthortradition.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=1122

Originally posted by sumydid
You're wrong. Again. Period.

A Covenant is an agreement; a contract; between a Sovereign and those He rules over. A Covenant can be fulfilled and, as the Sovereign decreed, absolutely is fulfilled... only for those of us who agree to the New Covenant contract.

It's a very remedial concept, but I can see how a (hypothetical) frustrated, he foot. Over and over. All the more eager with each toe-piercing pull of the trigger.

Sumydid, intellectuals and pseudo intellectuals who marginalize themselves by reason of having given up on an objective search for absolute truth seldom exhibit conversational honesty, especially in cyberspace. Sadly, best to leave them to their free fall and shop elsewhere for stimulating give and take, in my opinion. gb

Originally posted by sumydid
You're wrong. Again. Period.

A Covenant is an agreement; a contract; between a Sovereign and those He rules over. A Covenant can be fulfilled and, as the Sovereign decreed, absolutely is fulfilled... only for those of us who agree to the New Covenant contract.

It's a very remedial concept, but I can see how a (hypothetical) frustrated, ...[text shortened]... he foot. Over and over. All the more eager with each toe-piercing pull of the trigger.

in all your incoherent babbling, you did not once demonstrate that jesus did not change the law.

Mat 5:38-39 Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth: But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also.

you can wiggle and squirm all you want. jesus changed the law.

Originally posted by VoidSpirit
in all your incoherent babbling, you did not once demonstrate that jesus did not change the law.

Mat 5:38-39 Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth: But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also.

you can wiggle and squirm all you want. jesus changed the law.

I don't think he "changed" it, I think he revealed God's true heart.

Originally posted by checkbaiter
I don't think he "changed" it, I think he revealed God's true heart.

so you're saying that the hebrews from abraham's time to jesus didn't know god's true heart. and none of the prophets preceding jesus who apparently talked directly with god said anything about the revisions. but all that absurdity is inconsequential.

the hebrews had a set of laws which they followed for many centuries and jesus introduced another. he changed the law.

Originally posted by VoidSpirit
so you're saying that the hebrews from abraham's time to jesus didn't know god's true heart. and none of the prophets preceding jesus who apparently talked directly with god said anything about the revisions. but all that absurdity is inconsequential.

the hebrews had a set of laws which they followed for many centuries and jesus introduced another. he changed the law.

Let me rephrase my statement...Jesus "declared" God, so it says in John....The old testament Jews thought God was responsible for every thing, good and evil...Jesus clarified this position.

Originally posted by checkbaiter
Let me rephrase my statement...Jesus "declared" God, so it says in John....The old testament Jews thought God was responsible for every thing, good and evil...Jesus clarified this position.

by changing the old laws. very good. i'm glad you understand.

Originally posted by VoidSpirit
by changing the old laws. very good. i'm glad you understand.

The Messiah did not change any Old Testatment law. He magnified them and fulfilled the prophecy of establishing a new covenant with the law of liberty. If we believe on Him we shall be judged by the law of liberty. Otherwise, the Old Testament law is used in judgment.

HalleluYah !!! Praise the Lord! Holy! Holy! Holy!

Originally posted by RJHinds
The Messiah did not change any Old Testatment law. He magnified them and fulfilled the prophecy of establishing a new covenant with the law of liberty. If we believe on Him we shall be judged by the law of liberty. Otherwise, the Old Testament law is used in judgment.

HalleluYah !!! Praise the Lord! Holy! Holy! Holy!

it's really quiet simple. let me explain it to you again, slower this time so you understand.

he changed the law.

Mat 5:38-39 Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth: But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also.

the law in the old testament was, "an eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth"

jesus changed the law.
"but i say unto you..."

jesus changed the law.
"resist not evil"

jesus changed the law.
"but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also."

understand? no? let's put it another way:

original law: "An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth"

jesus changed the law: "resist not evil but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also."

it's settled. jesus changed the law.