"atheism is a belief"

Originally posted by rwingett
Babies are implicit atheists, as are all people who have never heard of god or who are incapable of conceiving of him. This status is worth noting because babies can be expected to grow up to be either theists or explicit atheists. A rock, by contrast, is incapable of ever believing anything, under any circumstances. As such, it makes no sense to refer to a ...[text shortened]... as an atheist. Just as it would make no sense to say, for example, that hydrogen is an atheist.

You don't know what a baby believes or thinks.

Originally posted by vistesd
Bingo. (And I do not presently class myself as an atheist--though I suspect that many theists might.)

vistesd, here's the opening paragraph of your own post on page four of apathist's thread two years ago:

Originally posted by vistesd 15 Jul '13 19:14 / 3 edits

"Atheism: 1. the doctrine or belief that there is no God [sic]. 2. disbelief in the existence of a supreme being or beings.

—Webster’s New Universal Unabridged Dictionary

_____________________________________________

The above dictionary definition illustrates a few things.

First, there are clearly two definitions given, one based on “doctrine or belief”, the other on “disbelief”. Under “disbelief” in the same dictionary, one finds: “the inability to believe or accept that something is true”; the entry under “disbelieve” includes to “have no belief”. That is, “disbelief” does not always mean that one is asserting the opposite of a proffered belief (though it can)...."
.

Originally posted by Grampy Bobby
[b]atheism is a belief Thread 154278 (33 Pages)
Original post by apathist [on 13 Jul '13 14:01.Last moved 614 days 14 hours and 38 minutes ago]

"There are those who believe that atheism is best defined as a lack of belief in gods. Well, babies and rocks don't believe in gods.

By using dictionaries and encyclopedias, it t ...[text shortened]... ______________________________

Your opinions, speculations and/or latest insights pro or con?[/b]

Seven thumbs down. Wow shows how stupid people are and that they would want to risk their eternity!

Originally posted by RBHILL
Seven thumbs down. Wow shows how stupid people are and that they would want to risk their eternity!

How does thumbing down a post about whether or not atheism is a belief reflect a person's intelligence or impact where they spend eternity?

Originally posted by BigDoggProblem
I am fine with either version. I used to make a stink about 'belief in' vs. belief that', but now I am not so afraid of the distinction. When I lift my foot up to take a step, I believe in gravity's ability to bring my foot down, every bit as much as a dualist theist believes in his God. The connotation doesn't frighten me.

The connotation doesn't frighten me either, it does however incorrectly describe the situation. Every time I take a step I am not believing in the lack of a deity to bring my foot down. I do not take any actions which rely on the lack of a deity for their completion. It is not a belief that I rely on. I do not believe in not-G.

To give another example: let C be the proposition that the moon is made of cheese. I believe that not-C. I do not believe in not-C. There is no action for whose completion I consciously rely on not-C being the case. If C, then my whole outlook on life might change. After all, missions to the moon could end world hunger. But believing not-C is not life changing nor something I describe myself as believing in.

Originally posted by Grampy Bobby
Please cite your questions.

I have no questions for you as you never answer questions.

Originally posted by Grampy Bobby
twhitehead, apathist "started" this thread two years ago.

My mistake. I didn't realise that the encyclopaedia reference was part of the quote. Nevertheless, you could have looked up Wikipedia and resolved the issue without ever bothering to quote the thread in this forum. Clearly you are still confused about the issue despite many threads on the topic and the existence of Wikipedia which clearly demonstrates the quote to be false.

Originally posted by RBHILL
Seven thumbs down. Wow shows how stupid people are and that they would want to risk their eternity!

The post contains an obvious falsehood. Do you disagree? If so read the thread carefully and explain why you disagree. Your eternity is not at stake, so you have nothing to worry about on that count.

Originally posted by KellyJay
Atheist define themselves by this lack of belief in God, or out right rejection of Him.

It is always you believers who can't fathom how someone can't possibly believe in the same superstitious nonsense that you do, and worse, refuse to dance by your pipe in the political and social games that ensue. If you tell me that I can or cannot do this or that because you've fallen for, what appears to me an outlandishly ridiculous, evidentially unsubstantiated, politically motivated religious set of claims, I'm going to react by saying I try not to believe without good evidence, and tell you to keep those religious opinions to yourself until you have empirical evidence to support your case. Atheism is disbelief in your theistic claims. Why are some of us so vocal about our atheism? Why can't we just let you be? It's a reaction to bad theistic cultural influences (irrational persecution of homosexuals, impediments to scientific progress, etc.) that affect even us because they're taken way too seriously, by far too many, for no good reason at all. It is a statement that, because I lack belief, I will not act or do as you tell me to, unless you can give me good, rational reasons for your particular brand of morality or ethics, and the realisation that once you do, religion itself becomes superfluous. We're trying to snap you out of it, and a simple slap across your face apparently won't do.

But really, atheism is just a disbelief in theistic claims. Everything else about us is motivated by different concerns.

Originally posted by Grampy Bobby

GD, my perspective with regard to apathist's thread title is as follows: An atheist is a person who believes in some manner by which the universe, the pyramidal food chain and human populations came into being; who believes in some standards of morality; who believes in some unifying code of social conduct, principles of civility o ...[text shortened]... friends; but who does not believe the proposition that any supernatural being or gods exist.

Thanks for the clarity of your position. I think where we differ, is that i only relate my atheism to a disbelief in God. Everything else you listed; believing in code of social conduct, standards of morality etc are not part of my atheism, but part of my humanity (Part of my reality).

As C.Hess said, " But really, atheism is just a disbelief in theistic claims. Everything else about us is motivated by different concerns."

Originally posted by C Hess
It is always you believers

Less of the generalisations, thank you 🙂

Originally posted by Grampy Bobby
[b]atheism is a belief Thread 154278 (33 Pages)
Original post by apathist [on 13 Jul '13 14:01.Last moved 614 days 14 hours and 38 minutes ago]

"There are those who believe that atheism is best defined as a lack of belief in gods. Well, babies and rocks don't believe in gods.

By using dictionaries and encyclopedias, it t ...[text shortened]... ______________________________

Your opinions, speculations and/or latest insights pro or con?[/b]

You like inventing new definitions for words.

Re-invent a word which means "lack of belief in god or gods" then we can all forget this semantic nonsense.

Originally posted by Grampy Bobby
Originally posted by Ghost of a Duke
"I think you would have been better off GB in stating clearly that you think atheism is a belief, rather than quoting a post from antiquity. There is strength in directness."
____________________________________

GD, my perspective with regard to apathist's thread title is as follows: An atheist is a perso ...[text shortened]... eon, attorney. or God Himself]. Atheists believe but not in God. Thanks for your objective post.

Here you're just twisting logic and entwining unrelated issues. Atheism says nothing about the origins of the universe, or populations, or morals or ethics or social conduct or political systems or trustworthiness of family/friends. Is only about belief in God. Theist - believes in god. Atheist - doesn't. It's so simple, so black and white. Clinging to the belief that it is not is simply denying the meaning of the word.

Originally posted by twhitehead
My mistake. I didn't realise that the encyclopaedia reference was part of the quote. Nevertheless, you could have looked up Wikipedia and resolved the issue without ever bothering to quote the thread in this forum. Clearly you are still confused about the issue despite many threads on the topic and the existence of Wikipedia which clearly demonstrates the quote to be false.

Originally posted by twhitehead
"Clearly you are still confused about the issue despite many threads on the topic and the existence of Wikipedia which clearly demonstrates the quote to be false."

twhitehead, there is no quote in the original post; only the verbatim words apathist typed enclosed within quotation marks as shown again below:

Originally posted by Grampy Bobby (OP)
atheism is a belief Thread 154278 (33 Pages)
Original post by apathist [on 13 Jul '13 14:01.Last moved 614 days 14 hours and 38 minutes ago]

"There are those who believe that atheism is best defined as a lack of belief in gods. Well, babies and rocks don't believe in gods.

By using dictionaries and encyclopedias, it turns out that atheism requires belief.

I'm pretty sure than must be correct, unless you have scientific evidence that gods cannot exist? :/"
_______________________________________

Your opinions, speculations and/or latest insights pro or con?

Originally posted by Ghost of a Duke
Thanks for the clarity of your position. I think where we differ, is that i only relate my atheism to a disbelief in God. Everything else you listed; believing in code of social conduct, standards of morality etc are not part of my atheism, but part of my humanity (Part of my reality).

As C.Hess said, " But really, atheism is just a disbelief in theistic claims. Everything else about us is motivated by different concerns."

Originally posted by Ghost of a Duke
"Thanks for the clarity of your position. I think where we differ, is that i only relate my atheism to a disbelief in God...."

We agree. My reply on page two simply stated the fact that "We all share belief or faith as a third mean of perception based on confidence in the authority of someone whose veracity we explicitly trust [a parent, teacher, coach, law emforcement or military officer, surgeon, attorney. or God Himself]. Atheists believe but not in God."