17 Oct 09
A planet floating in space. Billions of years pass and life begins.
Billions of more years pass and a planet is covered with life forms.
Billions of years pass and all life on the planet ceases to exist.
Atheism/evolution- from nothing to nothing. What a powerful message of hope, and love.
Imagine believing in something like eternal life. What a let down. No creator/God/Father to love anyone. Who needs that? No one greater than ourselves to love. What a hoax. It's just us, and we won't be around for long anyway.
If I were an atheist, I don't think I could find one good reason why I should stay alive for even one more minute. What's the point? Whatever reason I came up with couldn't possibly be true since that reason would cease to exist as soon as I did.
17 Oct 09
Originally posted by josephwYou know absolutely nothing about atheists and you repeatedly put this ignorance on display in your posts. You just cling to your ridiculous stereotypes.
If I were an atheist, I don't think I could find one good reason why I should stay alive for even one more minute. What's the point? Whatever reason I came up with couldn't possibly be true since that reason would cease to exist as soon as I did.
17 Oct 09
Originally posted by josephwWell, I an atheist,unlike you, so i think I might have a bit more credibility. I have three good reasons straight off the top of my head for staying around as long as I can.
A planet floating in space. Billions of years pass and life begins.
Billions of more years pass and a planet is covered with life forms.
Billions of years pass and all life on the planet ceases to exist.
Atheism/evolution- from nothing to nothing. What a powerful message of hope, and love.
Imagine believing in something like eternal life. What a ...[text shortened]... up with couldn't possibly be true since that reason would cease to exist as soon as I did.
I'm watching two of them right now - they're called children. My responsibility to raise them is more than enough meaning for one person's life, don't you think?
On second thoughts don't answer that, you'll probably tell me more about the eternal life I'm going to miss out on.
Good ridance I say to your eternal life, I prefer the one I have right now.
17 Oct 09
Originally posted by josephwSo: loving those you love is not worth living one more minute just in order to do so—if in the end you, and they, will cease to exist? What a tragic and nihilistic view of this life!
If I were an atheist, I don't think I could find one good reason why I should stay alive for even one more minute. What's the point? Whatever reason I came up with couldn't possibly be true since that reason would cease to exist as soon as I did.
If this life has so little value for itself—whether or not there is an “afterlife”—if those you love in this life have so little value to you that you wouldn’t want to spend more time with them, then that is truly tragic. In fact, you sound here like someone who really longs for death (but wouldn’t commit suicide because it’s a sin) so you can depart this life for the next one as soon as possible—since apparently the only value you find in this life is to live in such a way that guarantees a blissful next life, and everything else is relatively worthless to you.
As for me, I’m going to get off of here now and go be close to my wife—since considering the finality of death heightens the preciousness of her love, and I realize what a waste it is, in comparison, spending any more time on here reacting to this kind of crock. Thanks at least for jarring me back to the realization of what are the really valuable things in this short, and therefore precious, life.
See ya.
17 Oct 09
Originally posted by josephwIf I were an atheist, I don't think I could find one good reason why I should stay alive for even one more minute.
A planet floating in space. Billions of years pass and life begins.
Billions of more years pass and a planet is covered with life forms.
Billions of years pass and all life on the planet ceases to exist.
Atheism/evolution- from nothing to nothing. What a powerful message of hope, and love.
Imagine believing in something like eternal life. What a ...[text shortened]... up with couldn't possibly be true since that reason would cease to exist as soon as I did.
Bull. I'm sure you could think of several. What about the relationships and projects in your life? If you discovered tomorrow that God doesn't really exist, somehow your heretofore textured and rich relationships and projects would just cease to be meaningful and reason-giving?
You must be confusing impermanence with insignificance.
Whatever reason I came up with couldn't possibly be true since that reason would cease to exist as soon as I did.
Huh?
17 Oct 09
Originally posted by vistesdYes, well said.
As for me, I’m going to get off of here now and go be close to my wife—since considering the finality of death heightens the preciousness of her love, and I realize what a waste it is, in comparison, spending any more time on here reacting to this kind of crock. Thanks at least for jarring me back to the realization of what are the really valuable things in this short, and therefore precious, life.
17 Oct 09
Originally posted by vistesd"What a tragic and nihilistic view of this life!"
So: loving those you love is not worth living one more minute just in order to do so—if in the end you, and they, will cease to exist? What a tragic and nihilistic view of this life!
If this life has so little value for itself—whether or not there is an “afterlife”—if those you love in this life have so little value to you that you wouldn’t want ...[text shortened]... n of what are the really valuable things in this short, and therefore precious, life.
See ya.
Precisely!
The idea that no one will remember you ever lived at all, and that all you ever lived for will vanish from existence is truly nihilistic.
Atheism/nihilism. There's no escaping it. I'm sorry it pains you, but what other conclusion can there be? All our love is in vain if it has no eternal value. Atheism says your love will die.
Atheism is a lie! Nihilism has it's root in atheism. I glad you caught my point. Even though you don't believe it.
17 Oct 09
Originally posted by josephwYour beliefs are your beliefs nothing more nothing less. Just because you believe something is true, it doesn't actually make it true.
[b]"What a tragic and nihilistic view of this life!"
Precisely!
The idea that no one will remember you ever lived at all, and that all you ever lived for will vanish from existence is truly nihilistic.
Atheism/nihilism. There's no escaping it. I'm sorry it pains you, but what other conclusion can there be? All our love is in vain if it has no et ...[text shortened]... sm has it's root in atheism. I glad you caught my point. Even though you don't believe it.[/b]
My view as an atheist is this - one day i am going to die, might be today, might be tomorrow, might be next week, next year or in 50yrs. But it will happen, and when it does there's nothing i can do about it. I'm of the opinion that no matter what i believe in during my lifetime it is not going to have any effect on what will happen when i die. That doesn't mean i'm not going to strive and try to be a decent human being as i can and live my life to the fullest, because i do.
Now if you need a nice little security blanket called 'faith', which you believe will somehow protect you when you die and send you to a nice afterlife, so be it, that's okay. I don't feel the need for that.
If threre is a heaven and afterlife as you so believe, i like to think i would be judged on my deeds not on what i believe.
17 Oct 09
Originally posted by josephwAnd because of your really strange psychology which forces you to be unable to deal with the universe in which we live, you instead live in a world of fantasy. But some tiny part of your brain seems to know that it is all fantasy and so in order to keep it quiet you seem to feel the need to invent the most ridiculous arguments to defend your fantasies.
If I were an atheist, I don't think I could find one good reason why I should stay alive for even one more minute. What's the point? Whatever reason I came up with couldn't possibly be true since that reason would cease to exist as soon as I did.
Part of your problem is you seem to be unable to comprehend the meaning or value of anything unless that thing is eternal. But when asked why your think eternal things are more meaningful or valuable you evade the question and go and start anther thread.
17 Oct 09
Originally posted by josephwIs that what your Christianity is? A mechanism to reassure yourself that you'll be remembered forever? What a childish and self-centered world view that is.
[b]"What a tragic and nihilistic view of this life!"
Precisely!
The idea that no one will remember you ever lived at all, and that all you ever lived for will vanish from existence is truly nihilistic.
Atheism/nihilism. There's no escaping it. I'm sorry it pains you, but what other conclusion can there be? All our love is in vain if it has no et ...[text shortened]... sm has it's root in atheism. I glad you caught my point. Even though you don't believe it.[/b]
As an atheist, I think the matter that constitutes my body is eternal. When I die and decay, that matter will be dispersed back into the universe. In that sense, I have always existed and will always exist, although not in a form that you would recognize as 'me.'
17 Oct 09
Originally posted by josephwThis post offers tremendous insight into the world of simplistic thinking. No wonder my child says that arguing here is like competing in the Special Olympics.
A planet floating in space. Billions of years pass and life begins.
Billions of more years pass and a planet is covered with life forms.
Billions of years pass and all life on the planet ceases to exist.
Atheism/evolution- from nothing to nothing. What a powerful message of hope, and love.
Imagine believing in something like eternal life. What a ...[text shortened]... up with couldn't possibly be true since that reason would cease to exist as soon as I did.
19 Oct 09
1 edit
Originally posted by rwingettYes. I once wrote, as part of a poem:
Is that what your Christianity is? A mechanism to reassure yourself that you'll be remembered forever? What a childish and self-centered world view that is.
As an atheist, I think the matter that constitutes my body is eternal. When I die and decay, that matter will be dispersed back into the universe. In that sense, I have always existed and will always exist, although not in a form that you would recognize as 'me.'
How tragic for the flame to fear
annihilation in the larger fire,
or the waterdrop to be afraid to fall
into the vastness of the sea—
But the fright of losing the separate “ego-me” (which is little more than a conscious-of-itself point-of-perspective, albeit a self-reflective one, that is not really separable from the Whole anyway—anymore than the gulfstream is really separable from the ocean) can be compelling. I have never been anything but “a transient flame of the larger fire”, which I might call the Tao. That this “transient flame” is characterized by reflective consciousness warrants no leap to ontological separateness, let alone eternal separateness. To resist “burning” according to the coherent natural order is futile illusion, and results in contradiction and conflict.
The incoherencies of supernatural dualism result because of the rejection of the ultimate totality from which, in which, and of which we are—whatever metaphysical speculations one might indulge in about the nature of that totality. (Twhitehead has articulated this especially well.) In strict dualism, the two (or more) elements must be completely separable (“wholly other” in theological language: e.g. god and creation); any relationship at all (even a perceived uni-directional one) immediately implies a larger totality—from which, in which and of which both elements (e.g. god and creation) are.
I think of in terms of a gestalt: figure (forms/manifestations) and ground. The ground is never actually perceivable; it is that vis-à-vis we are able to perceive the forms. The ground is always implicate. I call it the “implicate expressive ground”—or the Tao, for short (or the Brahman of Advaita Vedanta, or the Ein Sof of kabbalistic Judaism, or&hellip😉. To posit the existence of a god-being is necessarily to posit a “figure” that can only be said to “exist” in terms of some larger, implicate ground of being. If one says that the ground of being is precisely what one calls “God”, then one is back to some form of non-dualism (perhaps panentheism, depending on what else one ascribes to that “God/ground-of-being” ).
As Lao Tzu said: “I don’t know what to call it, so I just call it Tao.” That’s just a word for the implicate expressive ground, of which I—and you—are transient expressions. “How tragic for the flame to fear/annihilation in the larger fire.” Tragic also not to be able to relish this time of being a conscious flame...
19 Oct 09
Originally posted by josephwi am a christian and i find it quite reasonable to believe in god and in evolution. i am a christian and i find offensive the idea that i will rot in hell because i use my god given head to think that the genesis story is cute but incorrect. i find it odd that some christians would put so much faith in a book they ignore anyway because of jesus. i find it moronic that some christians say the old laws of the old testament are no longer valid because of jesus, yet they find nothing wrong with genesis, a book that has as much meaning as the tooth fairy. i find it hypocritical to say that genesis is the word of god and that it should be taken literrally and held as absolute truth, yet the commands that god gave to stone adulterers to death and kill anyone who doesn't believe in him and so on are considered metaphorical and obsolete.
A planet floating in space. Billions of years pass and life begins.
Billions of more years pass and a planet is covered with life forms.
Billions of years pass and all life on the planet ceases to exist.
Atheism/evolution- from nothing to nothing. What a powerful message of hope, and love.
Imagine believing in something like eternal life. What a ...[text shortened]... up with couldn't possibly be true since that reason would cease to exist as soon as I did.
evolution doesn't prove god wrong. evolution doesn't prove god inexistent. evolution doesn't prove god flawed. evolution has nothing to do with god, just as quantum physics doesn't have anything to do with god.