Atheistic Atrocities

Originally posted by scherzo
Proof: Stalin created a student army of atheists, similar to the Gestapo in Nazi Germany or the Red Army in Maoist China. The group was called the League of Militant Godless (or the League of Militant Atheists, the Society of the Godless, or the League of Belligerent Atheists, depending on the translation you get). They sent millions of theists to labor camp ...[text shortened]... one time or another. Atheists are no exception, and that's true whether you are atheist or not.

The Wikipedia article says:

Guided by Bolshevik principles of antireligious propaganda and party's orders with regards to religion, S.o.G. aimed at fighting religion in all its manifestations and forming scientific mindset among the workers. It popularized atheism and scientific achievements, conducted individual work with religious people, prepared propagandists and atheistic campaigners, published scientific literature and periodicals, organized museums and exhibitions, conducted scientific research in the field of atheism and critics of religion.

How does that make the organization equal to the Gestapo, or the Red Army?

Originally posted by rwingett
The Wikipedia article says:

Guided by Bolshevik principles of antireligious propaganda and party's orders with regards to religion, S.o.G. aimed at fighting religion in all its manifestations and forming scientific mindset among the workers. It popularized atheism and scientific achievements, conducted individual work with religious people, prepared p ...[text shortened]... of religion.

How does that make the organization equal to the Gestapo, or the Red Army?

Selective reading, then.

You know, I don't want to be right about this. I would much prefer that all atheists are always rational no matter what. However, Maoist and Stalinist groups did indeed torture and kill people who weren't atheist. Of course, things like the Holocaust or the Inquisition were worse, and were committed in the name of God, but one of the things I pride atheists in being is willing to accept the truth.

Originally posted by scherzo
Selective reading, then.

You know, I don't want to be right about this. I would much prefer that all atheists are always rational no matter what. However, Maoist and Stalinist groups did indeed torture and kill people who weren't atheist. Of course, things like the Holocaust or the Inquisition were worse, and were committed in the name of God, but one of the things I pride atheists in being is willing to accept the truth.

I am not challenging you on whether atheists ever do anything nasty. I was merely challenging your equation of the SoG with the Gestapo and the Red Army. It's one thing to persuade people with propaganda and quite another to persuade them with a baseball bat.

Originally posted by scottishinnz
I disagree, at least in Stalin's reasons, if not actions.

Stalin acted in the way he did to stamp out the competition - its a plan of action all in the communist manifesto (apparently), first you consolidate ppower, and wipe out competing structures, then you can start your communist regime. Stalin never really got round to the second part, unfortu ...[text shortened]... s purge was not on religious grounds, at least from any evidence that I've seen presented.....

No True Atheist... 😵

Originally posted by rwingett
I am not challenging you on whether atheists ever do anything nasty. I was merely challenging your equation of the SoG with the Gestapo and the Red Army. It's one thing to persuade people with propaganda and quite another to persuade them with a baseball bat.

How do gulags fare with respect to baseball bats?

Originally posted by Palynka
How do gulags fare with respect to baseball bats?

I hear Leningrad Sluggers were the model of choice.

Originally posted by rwingett
I am not challenging you on whether atheists ever do anything nasty. I was merely challenging your equation of the SoG with the Gestapo and the Red Army. It's one thing to persuade people with propaganda and quite another to persuade them with a baseball bat.

I'm not trying to persuade people. It's the straight-out truth that Stalin did torture, kill, and enslave millions of theists in Russia. I hate that fact because, well, it's just wrong to kill millions of people based on belief, and because I am atheist myself. How can the SoG not be like the Gestapo or the Red Guards, who also killed millions based on the beliefs of the killed?

Originally posted by scherzo
I'm not trying to persuade people. It's the straight-out truth that Stalin did torture, kill, and enslave millions of theists in Russia. I hate that fact because, well, it's just wrong to kill millions of people based on belief, and because I am atheist myself. How can the SoG not be like the Gestapo or the Red Guards, who also killed millions based on the beliefs of the killed?

The SoG didn't kill people. At least not according to the Wikipedia article. They engaged in extensive propaganda campaigns. That is why they are not like the Gestapo or the Red Guards.

Originally posted by scherzo
How can the SoG not be like the Gestapo or the Red Guards, who also killed millions based on the beliefs of the killed?

In the end it's irrelevant. Crimes against humanity aren't the monopoly of Gestapo or the Red guard.

Originally posted by rwingett
The SoG didn't kill people. At least not according to the Wikipedia article. They engaged in extensive propaganda campaigns. That is why they are not like the Gestapo or the Red Guards.

And what number of religious prisoners in gulags under Stalin does Wikipedia report?

Originally posted by Palynka
In the end it's irrelevant. Crimes against humanity aren't the monopoly of Gestapo or the Red guard.

No, that's true. Some Christians do horrible things in the name of religion, some Jews do horrible things in the name of religion, some Muslims " " " " " " " ", etc. etc. etc. And then there are non-religious crimes.

Originally posted by Palynka
And what number of religious prisoners in gulags under Stalin does Wikipedia report?

Did the SoG run the Gulags?

Originally posted by rwingett
Did the SoG run the Gulags?

Who cares about the SoG?

The local church group didn't run the gulags neither.

Originally posted by Palynka
Who cares about the SoG?

The local church group didn't run the gulags neither.

Perhaps you should go back and re-read my entries in this thread, Palynka. My sole contribution to date has been to dispute Scherzo's claim that the SoG was the equivalent of the Gestapo and the Red Guards. So if you're responding to my posts, then that is the topic of discussion. If you don't care about the SoG then don't respond to my posts.

Originally posted by rwingett
Perhaps you should go back and re-read my entries in this post, Palynka.

It'd probably be more instructive for him to scratch his balls.

Do you also cling to the belief that Stalin's crimes were somehow different than the usual catalogue flung at 'religion' (usually tacitly defined as 'the big 3 monotheisms'😉 and that atheism being the official belief system of his state had nothing to do with any of it? Please speak up.