18 Nov 07
Originally posted by josephwALL religions are in the mind and ONLY in the mind. There is no outside force that communicates with only a special few to supposedly help the rest of humanity. The thing you are obsessing on is vapor. You should live your life almost as if you get one chance at a body and one chance to make a difference in the world, not some tired dogma of some kind of life after you die. That kind of thing is what has lead to so many sick wars it goes beyond being human and right into being animal. Your kind of thinking is what has led the human race into the incredibly bad situation it finds itself in now.
It seems to me that theists and atheists should get along with each other better than those of differing religious views.
After all, it's all in the mind. Isn't it?
If there was, for instance, one god like you suppose, assuming this god is sane, it would not stoop to make thousands of separate religions diabolically opposed to one another. Take Islam. Supposedly the religion of tolerance. It is anything but and there will be war forever until one or the other, sick christians or sick muslims 'win' militarily. That is not a fight over sprituality, that is a fight over control of men and the abject subjugation of women. There can never be a 'moderate' muslim. The muslim scriptures ensures that. 30 % of the Q'ran is loaded with invictives to kill infidels, how its ok to lie to infidels to lull them into being asleep and then to strike. That is how Islam works. Christianity has been a lot like that too, all you have to do is look at the inquisitions, which has not been completely dissolved to this day, or the Crusades.
If a real god ever showed up, Christian and Muslim leaders will have a LOT of blood on their hands to explain. I hope every christian and every muslim in that case gets sent forthwith to the center of the sun, that is a pretty good simulation of the hell they so richly deserve.
18 Nov 07
Originally posted by sonhouseAmen!!!
ALL religions are in the mind and ONLY in the mind. There is no outside force that communicates with only a special few to supposedly help the rest of humanity. The thing you are obsessing on is vapor. You should live your life almost as if you get one chance at a body and one chance to make a difference in the world, not some tired dogma of some kind of li ...[text shortened]... the center of the sun, that is a pretty good simulation of the hell they so richly deserve.
19 Nov 07
Originally posted by josephwWhy should our beliefs cause us to get along with anyone less or more? Why should that matter at all?
It seems to me that theists and atheists should get along with each other better than those of differing religious views.
After all, it's all in the mind. Isn't it?
19 Nov 07
Originally posted by sonhouseI would love to be like you. I would love to be able to be sure that what I believed was a fact rather than a guess based on how I interpret reality. I would love to have such absolute certainty that I was right about something that the rest of the world won't find out the truth about until they die and discover that they were either right or wrong. I want to be so sure that my intelligence is so high the truth must therefore rest in my brain and all who disagree are obviously wrong and deluded.
ALL religions are in the mind and ONLY in the mind. There is no outside force that communicates with only a special few to supposedly help the rest of humanity. The thing you are obsessing on is vapor. You should live your life almost as if you get one chance at a body and one chance to make a difference in the world, not some tired dogma of some kind of li ...[text shortened]... the center of the sun, that is a pretty good simulation of the hell they so richly deserve.
19 Nov 07
4 edits
Originally posted by sonhouseALL religions are in the mind and ONLY in the mind. There is no outside force that communicates with only a special few to supposedly help the rest of humanity. The thing you are obsessing on is vapor.
ALL religions are in the mind and ONLY in the mind. There is no outside force that communicates with only a special few to supposedly help the rest of humanity. The thing you are obsessing on is vapor. You should live your life almost as if you get one chance at a body and one chance to make a difference in the world, not some tired dogma of some kind of li the center of the sun, that is a pretty good simulation of the hell they so richly deserve.
Is it? How do you know for sure? How are your assertions anything more than vapor?
That kind of thing is what has lead to so many sick wars it goes beyond being human and right into being animal. Your kind of thinking is what has led the human race into the incredibly bad situation it finds itself in now.
So, without "religion" there would be no greed or economic competition? Without "religion" there would be no class strife or ideological wars? No nationalism, racism, or ethnic cleansing? Please...
If there was, for instance, one god like you suppose, assuming this god is sane, it would not stoop to make thousands of separate religions diabolically opposed to one another.
You are assuming that God is responsible for all religions. But why do you assume that?
If a real god ever showed up, Christian and Muslim leaders will have a LOT of blood on their hands to explain. I hope every christian and every muslim in that case gets sent forthwith to the center of the sun, that is a pretty good simulation of the hell they so richly deserve.
It's interesting how you are suddenly appealing to the authority of a "real god," -- a God the religious authorities which you despise don't really know, despite their pious facade. It is entirely possible that you are more correct than you realize... The enemies of Truth, those who seek to keep mankind in bondage, have no more ingenious tool than to pose as followers of the Truth. If I were you, I'd make sure not to be fooled by them (if you despise them now, just wait till you find out what they kept you from).
Do you seek God? Have you ever studied the life and teachings of Jesus Christ for yourself? Do you reject Christ on His own merits, or because someone claiming to be His follower misrepresents Him?
19 Nov 07
Originally posted by pawnhandlerYou really would love to be that arrogant? 🙂
I would love to be like you. I would love to be able to be sure that what I believed was a fact rather than a guess based on how I interpret reality. I would love to have such absolute certainty that I was right about something that the rest of the world won't find out the truth about until they die and discover that they were either right or wrong. I ...[text shortened]... the truth must therefore rest in my brain and all who disagree are obviously wrong and deluded.
Kelly
19 Nov 07
Originally posted by epiphinehasCan you answer the same questions for Muhammed, Buddha, Confucius, or any other religion? Can anyone?
Do you seek God? Have you ever studied the life and teachings of Jesus Christ for yourself? Do you reject Christ on His own merits, or because someone claiming to be His follower misrepresents Him?
Very few I would guess.
So, are we all shot down because we haven't sought Christ on his own merits or might we reasonably decide that we can't do everything ourself in this world and at times we must rely on others to help guide us?
19 Nov 07
Originally posted by epiphinehasOf course I don't because I am not stupid enough to believe that I can genuinely determine what "his own merits" actually are. Every one of his followers I have ever met, claims that they are representing him correctly and that nearly everyone else is misrepresenting him.
Do you seek God? Have you ever studied the life and teachings of Jesus Christ for yourself? Do you reject Christ on His own merits, or because someone claiming to be His follower misrepresents Him?
I cannot study the life and teachings of Jesus Christ because I am convinced beyond reasonable doubt that no accurate record of his life or teachings exists in the world today. I am not even convinced that he actually existed in the first place.
19 Nov 07
Originally posted by twhiteheadAgreed, I have still yet to hear a convincing argument as to why we should accept any person's report of the qualities of God, Jesus or their determinacy of the bible.
Of course I don't because I am not stupid enough to believe that I can genuinely determine what "his own merits" actually are. Every one of his followers I have ever met, claims that they are representing him correctly and that nearly everyone else is misrepresenting him.
I cannot study the life and teachings of Jesus Christ because I am convinced beyond ...[text shortened]... ists in the world today. I am not even convinced that he actually existed in the first place.
19 Nov 07
Originally posted by sonhouseThis is what really bothers me. I would never wish this on a single soul, no matter what. All life is precious, even when the body and mind living it waste or abuse it or wield it in evil. And it is not because I have never known anyone who did any of those things. I have. I still hold compassion in my heart for every soul.
I hope every christian and every muslim in that case gets sent forthwith to the center of the sun, that is a pretty good simulation of the hell they so richly deserve.[/b]
19 Nov 07
Originally posted by StarrmanIf all you want is one of us (being any person) to be able to prove
Agreed, I have still yet to hear a convincing argument as to why we should accept any person's report of the qualities of God, Jesus or their determinacy of the bible.
God to you it will never happen, that can only be done by God Himself
and there that is between you and God, you have to seek God honestly.
Kelly
19 Nov 07
Originally posted by KellyJayThat's nothing to do with the problem of indeterminacy.
If all you want is one of us (being any person) to be able to prove
God to you it will never happen, that can only be done by God Himself
and there that is between you and God, you have to seek God honestly.
Kelly
19 Nov 07
Originally posted by amannionThat's the point. It does matter. We seem to think that just because someone believes differently than me or you that person is deserving of mistreatment.
Why should our beliefs cause us to get along with anyone less or more? Why should that matter at all?
As atheists and theists we recognise that what we believe is in our minds. Whether what we believe is true or not it is in our minds what we believe.
My question is why do we think we need to punish someone for not thinking the way we do?