22 Oct 09
2 edits
Originally posted by robbie carrobieHold on here padra.
Lol, i was only joking, but at least you have issued a Papal bull and lifted my excommunication, or may i take it that i am still excommunicated? Regardless, unless one has a forgiving nature, then i do not think that one can correctly be termed a 'Christian', considering that Christ's purpose was to come and give his life that we may be forgiven! No ...[text shortened]... will, so please you must think about this, whether it is proper to harbour resentment or not.
If I recall correctly I simply found it fruitless or frustrating to converse with you.
That is no "Papal Bull". And that is no Catholic "excomunication". Its was more of a lack of communication.
Its not personal. What we have is a failure to communicate. There is no sense of personal offense here.
I tell you what the word says, and you just don't take it. That's all. That's how it comes across to me. You just don't take it. So what's the point in repeating it ?
23 Oct 09
Originally posted by 667joeA very crude display ,but notable! thnx joe
You evaded the questions. You see, Jaywill, I am rather simple minded and it's easiest for me to contemplate yes or no answers, and you have a hard time providing them. You win. I give up. From what you say, however, you are pro women, anti slavery but homophobic. Two out of three ain't bad.🙄🙄🙄
23 Oct 09
5 edits
Originally posted by karoly aczel====================================
A very crude display ,but notable! thnx joe
You evaded the questions. You see, Jaywill, I am rather simple minded and it's easiest for me to contemplate yes or no answers,
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Did you stop beating your wife yet ? Yes or no.
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and you have a hard time providing them. You win. I give up. From what you say, however, you are pro women, anti slavery but homophobic. Two out of three ain't bad.
==============================
I witnessed my younger brother die of HIV complications in the gay community in San Fransisco.
So it is rather personal to me. I have caution about how to answer your question of whether I am anti gay. Yes I am but not without mixed feelings how to discribe what I am against.
On one hand my brother's life style killed him. On the other hand they cared for him as he was dying to which I am thankful. That is the one man who was still left alive from a group who died one by one.
So for what I percieve could be a loaded questions like "Are pro or anti gay ?? Well ? Yes or No. Quickly please !!"
I am hesitant to fall into what might be your stereotype. If homophobic discribes me, that is okay. Had my brother been a little "homophobic" perhaps he would still be alive today. And please don't attempt to comfort my sense of lose by assuring me that people die of HIV for other reasons besides being gay. I know that and it doesn't seem relevant in my case.
Anyway, my conscience is clear. Jesus loves gay people and so do I in Him. All have sinned and come short of the glory of God. So we all need the Savior Christ.
Perhaps you are "evangelphobic" .
23 Oct 09
Originally posted by jaywillSorry to hear that Jay.....
[b]====================================
You evaded the questions. You see, Jaywill, I am rather simple minded and it's easiest for me to contemplate yes or no answers,
=====================================
Did you stop beating your wife yet ? Yes or no.
============================
and you have a hard time providing them. You win. I give ...[text shortened]... ry of God. So we all need the Savior Christ.
Perhaps you are "evangelphobic" .
23 Oct 09
Originally posted by jaywillI am very sorry to hear about the loss of your brother;
[b]====================================
You evaded the questions. You see, Jaywill, I am rather simple minded and it's easiest for me to contemplate yes or no answers,
=====================================
Did you stop beating your wife yet ? Yes or no.
============================
and you have a hard time providing them. You win. I give ...[text shortened]... ry of God. So we all need the Savior Christ.
Perhaps you are "evangelphobic" .
Best regards from Athens, Greece;
23 Oct 09
Originally posted by jaywillMy younger brother was killed in a car accident as a result of him being over the drink drive limit.
[b]====================================
You evaded the questions. You see, Jaywill, I am rather simple minded and it's easiest for me to contemplate yes or no answers,
=====================================
Did you stop beating your wife yet ? Yes or no.
============================
and you have a hard time providing them. You win. I give ...[text shortened]... ry of God. So we all need the Savior Christ.
Perhaps you are "evangelphobic" .
Does that mean i should be 'anti cars' or 'anti alcohol'?
25 Oct 09
8 edits
Originally posted by Proper Knob==================================
My younger brother was killed in a car accident as a result of him being over the drink drive limit.
Does that mean i should be 'anti cars' or 'anti alcohol'?
My younger brother was killed in a car accident as a result of him being over the drink drive limit.
Does that mean i should be 'anti cars' or 'anti alcohol'?
=====================================
First of all I am very sorry to hear of this tragic accident.
Secondly, if you would examine what I wrote carefully, I think you will see that mainly my mentioning the death of my brother was as a reason to why it was difficult for me to give a simplistic answer to the question "Are you anti gay?"
My attitude about sins which the New Testament warns the Christian will interfere with the reward of reigning with Christ in His kingdom, probably would have been the same regardless. The word of God is what governs my attitude the most.
Because the gay community has personally touched my life, I resisted joe's push for a trite answer. I think that is what he wanted because he actually started a new thread called "Attention Jaywill" when there was really no need to. I have explained pretty well my position in another thread TO him.
Not satisfied that it portrayed me as simple minded, simplistic, and bigoted, he invented a whole new thread "Attention Jaywill" to see of he could force cut and dry simplistic answer. I think this served his need to portray me as a bigot.
But judging from my exposition of 1 Cor. 6:9-11 I wonder if he will start new "Attention Jaywill" threads each to deal with the other life styles mention in that passage:
Are you anti unrighteous?
Are you anti fornication?
Are you anti idolatry?
Are you anti adultery?
Are you anti effeminate?
Are you anti thieving?
Are you anti covetous?
Are you anti drunkeness?
Are you anti reviling?
Are you anti rapacious?
Or the simple thing might be to ask me if I am anti a Christian not inheriting the kingdom of God.
Yes. I am not for Christian disciples not inheriting the kingdom of God. I think the believers should seek to inherit the kingdom of God.
26 Oct 09
Originally posted by jaywillDear Jaywill,
[b]==================================
My younger brother was killed in a car accident as a result of him being over the drink drive limit.
Does that mean i should be 'anti cars' or 'anti alcohol'?
=====================================
First of all I am very sorry to hear of this tragic accident.
Secondly, if you would examine what I ...[text shortened]... he kingdom of God. I think the believers should seek to inherit the kingdom of God.[/b]
I am very sorry about your brother, and I am also sorry that you think this was a personal attack. My purpose was to show that the bible is a bigoted document. Modern science has determined that sexual orientation is not a choice so how do you think your brother felt when facing the judgment of bible thumpers who looked down on him. It's plain that on one hand you loved your brother, but this was tempered by your disapproval of his life style because of what is in the bible. Had the bible said homosexuality was OK, you and your brother would have had a more fulfilling relationship. Thus, in my view, the bible reduced the quality of both your lives.
To sum it up, I am not anti Jaywill, I am anti bible. I think the bible has hurt more people than it has helped.
26 Oct 09
3 edits
Originally posted by 667joeabsolute rubbish!, modern science has done nothing of the sort, you people have banded this idea around and waved it as a huge banner as if it were written in stone, nothing could be further from the truth . All that you people can state with any certainty, is that some persons may produce a certain disproportionate amount of some type of hormones. There is no 'gay gene', none whatsoever, and secondly you cannot explain why some persons choose to be bi sexual, why other are heterosexual and then decide to be homosexual later in life and thirdly why there are so called 'reformed homosexuals', who through choice, have given up practising homosexuality. The whole argument is complete tosh, for while I being a heterosexual and think that women are gorgeous, does not mean that i am prepared to disregard morality, because i am hard-wired to like women! its a contemptible argument, it really is! All hail, the God of Science!
Dear Jaywill,
I am very sorry about your brother, and I am also sorry that you think this was a personal attack. My purpose was to show that the bible is a bigoted document. Modern science has determined that sexual orientation is not a choice so how do you think your brother felt when facing the judgment of bible thumpers who looked down on him. It's p ...[text shortened]... not anti Jaywill, I am anti bible. I think the bible has hurt more people than it has helped.
and get off Jaywills case!
26 Oct 09
Originally posted by robbie carrobieYou, sir , are clearly wrong. I assume you are hetero sexual. If so, did you make a conscious choice? Could you therefore change your choice and find your self attracted to members of your own sex? Are you claiming that you know more about the mind than the American Psychological Association? To use your words, you say you are hard wired to like women, a chunk of the population is hard wired differently. If sexual orientation were a choice, there would be no hard wiring. You, sir also seem to be bigoted.
absolute rubbish!, modern science has done nothing of the sort, you people have banded this idea around and waved it as a huge banner as if it were written in stone, nothing could be further from the truth . All that you people can state with any certainty, is that some persons may produce a certain disproportionate amount of some type of hormones. ...[text shortened]... emptible argument, it really is! All hail, the God of Science!
and get off Jaywills case!
26 Oct 09
1 edit
Originally posted by 667joeThank you for your sentiments. Now briefly on your other comments:
Dear Jaywill,
I am very sorry about your brother, and I am also sorry that you think this was a personal attack. My purpose was to show that the bible is a bigoted document. Modern science has determined that sexual orientation is not a choice so how do you think your brother felt when facing the judgment of bible thumpers who looked down on him. It's p ...[text shortened]... not anti Jaywill, I am anti bible. I think the bible has hurt more people than it has helped.
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My purpose was to show that the bible is a bigoted document.
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The Son of God was righteous and innocent, free from sin. He alone was qualified to judge us all. Yet He gave Himself to for our sins, taking into Himself sins judgment so that men "straight" and "gay" may be reconciled to God.
There is no possible way you can persuade me a higher level of morality has existed on this earth than that found in Jesus Christ. Your love for the sinner cannot come up to the level of the love of Jesus. You did not lay down your life for the sinners. I don't think you can rise above the Bible or Jesus Christ in equity, fairness, sacrificial love, or power to deliver from all sins.
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Modern science has determined that sexual orientation is not a choice so how do you think your brother felt when facing the judgment of bible thumpers who looked down on him.
=========================================
You are still ignorant. I think when my brother was dying he had a long time to consider and pray and seek God. I consider it merciful of God that he had months to meditate on the gospel and pray to the Lord Jesus.
I consider that he had a long time for the Spirit of Jesus to enter into his heart and save his spirit for eternity though his body decayed. I believe that God knows what He is doing.
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It's plain that on one hand you loved your brother, but this was tempered by your disapproval of his life style because of what is in the bible.
==================================
There is a lot in the Bible. And I do not take a myopic view of it. For instance Jesus warned the Christ rejecting generation that it would be more tolerable for the men in Sodom at the last judgment then it would be for the sinner's who refused the testimony Christ's apostles. And that would include rejection of the witness of the Gospel writers:
"And whoever does not receive you nor hear your words, as you go out of that house or city, shake off the dust from your feet.
Truly I say to you, It will be more tolerable for the land of Sodom and Gomorrah in the day of judgment than for that city." (Matt. 10:15)
Jesus here warns that it is more serious to reject the witness of the Gospel than it is to have been a Sodomite.
And some societies who feel that they have been exalted so very highly will face a harsher judgment than Sodom because of thier prideful rejection testimony that Jesus bore there, like the ancient city of Capernaum.
"And you, Capernaum, who have been exalted to heaven, to Hades you will be brought down. For it the works of power which took place in you had taken place in Sodom, it would have remained until today.
But I say to you that it will be more tolerable for the land of Sodom in that day of judgment than for you." (Matt. 11:23,24)
I think in principle that same thing could happen to modern societies that are so self "exalted" because of their knowledge of science and their opposition to the redeeming gospel of Jesus.
"But into whatever city you enter and they do not receive you, ... I say to you that it will be more tolerable for Sodom in that day than for that city .... He who hears you hears Me, and he who rejects you rejects Me, and he who rejects Me rejects Him who sent Me." (See Luke 10:10-16)
It is far more serious to turn your back on Christ's salvation for His redeeming acts atoned for all manner of sins. But you oppose the Bible and condemn believers as "Bible thumpers".
It could be that one day some men of Sodom will ask "What was it with this man? Had we the testimony of Jesus we would have repented and believed the Son of God." That is what is indicated in the New Testament.
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Had the bible said homosexuality was OK, you and your brother would have had a more fulfilling relationship. Thus, in my view, the bible reduced the quality of both your lives.
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I think you should reserve your sympathy for yourself. The sin you are gripped with could be worse, proudly opposing the work and Person of Jesus, broadcasting around the world that the word of God has many mistakes. You work to destroy men's faith in God's word. (Your "mistakes" have all proved to be your own follies).
I really think you'd be better advized to reserve some sympathy for how you will fare before God if you do not believe in Jesus as the Savior.
My cooperation with Christ does not have just my own selfish blessing in view. We aim to bring the Son of God back physically to this planet, by wooing Him with our belief, love, and obedience. And the coming of Christ is the coming of "the desire of the nations" . Nothing else could be so fortunate for this sin scared world than to welcome the physical return of Jesus.
So I consider my cooperation in the gospel of His kingdom to be a much higher level of humanitarian work than what you do.
26 Oct 09
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I am anti bible. I think the bible has hurt more people than it has helped.
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Whose hands the bible was in and what they did with it will be examined by God one day.
We are not going to lay down and die because man's evil would utilize the Bible to carry out his selfish schemes. We do not stop to follow Jesus because of the sins of the scribes and Pharisees.
You can use such an excuse. Many of us see the glorious result the word of God has had in millions over the centries.
You don't become anti science because of the experiments of the Nazis. So I will have none of your hypocrisy. We will continue to teach and preach the Bible.
26 Oct 09
Originally posted by jaywillYour conception of God is obviously one that is angered with non-conformity and vengeful on the unrepentant. Your tone is subtle-but it is there. Just another one of the turn-offs your view(s) entail to me.
Thank you for your sentiments. Now briefly on your other comments:
[b]======================================
My purpose was to show that the bible is a bigoted document.
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The Son of God was righteous and innocent, free from sin. He alone was qualified to judge us all. Yet He gave Himself to for ...[text shortened]... dom to be a much higher level of humanitarian work than what you do.[/b]