07 May 11
Originally posted by Rajk999Following the teaching doesn't mean your going to do all He said, only that you
Kelly Jay, Well ... off the top of my head I can say for certainty that an atheist cannot follow the teachings of Christ. Christ said:
Mark_12:30 ...thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment.
Can an atheist love a God which to him ...[text shortened]... ired for salvation and your relationship with Christ starts by following his commandments.
are following His teaching. In the OT we saw we could not follow even one
rule do not eat of that one tree, we then failed following the law, so now our
JW friend wants to setup a new set of rules to follow, and I'm saying following
rules, laws, teaching has not been our strong suit ever. Good works will occur
and do occur if you have given your life over to God, if you really do have a
relationship with God the works will follow as breathing does, it will just be
you living your life as you go about your day loving God and others as yourself.
Kelly
07 May 11
Originally posted by KellyJayIm pretty sure that Christ knew well in advance that we would not be able to follow " all he said". The fact remains that Christ did tell us to follow his commandments and thats the only road to salvation.
Following the teaching doesn't mean your going to do all He said, only that you
are following His teaching. In the OT we saw we could not follow even one
rule do not eat of that one tree, we then failed following the law, so now our
JW friend wants to setup a new set of rules to follow, and I'm saying following
rules, laws, teaching has not been our str ...[text shortened]... st be
you living your life as you go about your day loving God and others as yourself.
Kelly
Of course the JWs are wrong to try to set up a new rules. Christ is the way, the truth and the life. The words of Christ are the words of salvation.
So my question to you is, where did Christ say that
..Good works will occur
and do occur if you have given your life over to God, if you really do have a
relationship with God the works will follow.. ?
Are you as guilty as the JWs in trying to set up new rules?
08 May 11
1 edit
Originally posted by Rajk999What new rule would I be setting up? Saying we are new creatures in Christ?
Im pretty sure that Christ knew well in advance that we would not be able to follow " all he said". The fact remains that Christ did tell us to follow his commandments and thats the only road to salvation.
Of course the JWs are wrong to try to set up a new rules. Christ is the way, the truth and the life. The words of Christ are the words of salvat ...[text shortened]... d the works will follow..[/i] ?
Are you as guilty as the JWs in trying to set up new rules?
Corinthians 5:17
Anyone who belongs to Christ is a new person. The past is forgotten, and everything is new.
I'm not sure what you think I am saying, I'm saying if you are in a right
relationship with God in Christ you are a new creature. If you are walking with
God following His leading in a relationship you will be obeying everything He
said, but it is His grace and mercy not our efforts that save us. If you are
indeed following God's Holy Spirit, you will be doing what God wants, you will
be obeying His commands. What do you think I'm saying here? Jesus knew
He was about to leave and told us about how God was going to teach us and
guide us, in order to be taught you need God's Spirit, in order to be guided you
need to be following.
KJ
John 16 (Contemporary English Version)
5But now I am going back to the Father who sent me, and none of you asks me where I am going. 6You are very sad from hearing all of this. 7But I tell you that I am going to do what is best for you. That is why I am going away. The Holy Spirit cannot come to help you until I leave. But after I am gone, I will send the Spirit to you.
8The Spirit will come and show the people of this world the truth about sin and God's justice and the judgment. 9The Spirit will show them that they are wrong about sin, because they didn't have faith in me. 10They are wrong about God's justice, because I am going to the Father, and you won't see me again. 11And they are wrong about the judgment, because God has already judged the ruler of this world.
12I have much more to say to you, but right now it would be more than you could understand. 13The Spirit shows what is true and will come and guide you into the full truth. The Spirit doesn't speak on his own. He will tell you only what he has heard from me, and he will let you know what is going to happen. 14The Spirit will bring glory to me by taking my message and telling it to you. 15Everything that the Father has is mine. That is why I have said that the Spirit takes my message and tells it to you.
08 May 11
1 edit
Originally posted by Rajk999Double post.
Im pretty sure that Christ knew well in advance that we would not be able to follow " all he said". The fact remains that Christ did tell us to follow his commandments and thats the only road to salvation.
Of course the JWs are wrong to try to set up a new rules. Christ is the way, the truth and the life. The words of Christ are the words of salvat ...[text shortened]... d the works will follow..[/i] ?
Are you as guilty as the JWs in trying to set up new rules?
Kelly
08 May 11
Originally posted by KellyJayThe important word is "IF".
What new rule would I be setting up? Saying we are new creatures in Christ?
Corinthians 5:17
Anyone who belongs to Christ is a new person. The past is forgotten, and everything is new.
I'm not sure what you think I am saying, I'm saying if you are in a right
relationship with God in Christ you are a new creature. If you are walking with
God ...[text shortened]... is mine. That is why I have said that the Spirit takes my message and tells it to you.
IF you are in a right relationship with God THEN, good works will follow.
Obviously then, not everyone who claims to have accepted Jesus and have been baptised will do good works. Some will and some will not.
According to you good works will follow if your heart is right with God. IF good works do NOT follow THEN that persons relationship with God is NOT right.
08 May 11
Originally posted by Rajk999My point is a heart right with God will be doing those things that please God
The important word is "IF".
IF you are in a right relationship with God THEN, good works will follow.
Obviously then, not everyone who claims to have accepted Jesus and have been baptised will do good works. Some will and some will not.
According to you good works will follow if your heart is right with God. IF good works do NOT follow THEN that persons relationship with God is NOT right.
yes. I'm not attempting to point anyone to any group, not asking anyone to
join anything, except Jesus Christ right where they are. Will people still
struggle, yes...but in a relationship with God no matter what your going
through God is there.
Kelly
08 May 11
Originally posted by KellyJayI got that and I agree.
My point is a heart right with God will be doing those things that please God
yes. I'm not attempting to point anyone to any group, not asking anyone to
join anything, except Jesus Christ right where they are. Will people still
struggle, yes...but in a relationship with God no matter what your going
through God is there.
Kelly
Lets move on.
If good works are NOT forthcoming from someone who has declared their belief in Christ then what is their position?
08 May 11
1 edit
Originally posted by KellyJayNo. We already established that someone who has accepted Christ and is in a right relationship with God will automatically do good works.
You are asking me if someone in a right relationship with God does no good
works then what?
Kelly
Good works therefore is the demonstration that your heart is right with God and is a requirement by Christ before you are accepted into his kingdom. Read Matt 25. those who have done good works ( feed the hungry, clothe the naked etc) get salvation. But those who have not done these things are cast into outer darkness.
My question is :
If someone claims to have accepted Christ and does no good works (as defined by Christ) then their heart is not right with God. Is that statement correct?
08 May 11
Originally posted by Rajk999Anyone can claim to be anything; anyone can belong to any denomination,
No. We already established that someone who has accepted Christ and is in a right relationship with God will automatically do good works.
Good works therefore is the demonstration that your heart is right with God and is a requirement by Christ before you are accepted into his kingdom. Read Matt 25. those who have done good works ( feed the hungry, clothe ...[text shortened]... works (as defined by Christ) then their heart is not right with God. Is that statement correct?
anyone can belong to any organization, words are just words. If someone
cannot love their brother who they see, who has needs they can meet, or
who they can help in some way they do not love God who they don't see.
What is authentic will show itself to be true, that which is false will too.
Kelly
08 May 11
1 edit
Originally posted by josephwI think I have stated quite clearly that eternal life is a gift, it cannot be earned, yet the
The answer doesn't fit your theology robbie.
Enduring to the end is applicable to those who are here in this world at the end when the "son of perdition", "that man of sin" is revealed. Whoever is alive at that time and claims to be a believer will have to "endure" to the end. And will most likely have their head chopped off or starve to death because the s or no please.
By the way. You missed my post second from the last on page twelve.
Christ himself states that it is the one doing the will of the father that will see life!
08 May 11
1 edit
Originally posted by Rajk999Look at it this way, the root cause for our actions is what we are talking about
No. We already established that someone who has accepted Christ and is in a right relationship with God will automatically do good works.
Good works therefore is the demonstration that your heart is right with God and is a requirement by Christ before you are accepted into his kingdom. Read Matt 25. those who have done good works ( feed the hungry, clothe ...[text shortened]... works (as defined by Christ) then their heart is not right with God. Is that statement correct?
here! If our good deeds are just to get into heaven, than we are working for
our salvation, if our good deeds are to be seen by men to show how good we
are, we have our reward when we are seen. If our good deeds are to meet the
needs around us, because there are needs to be met, that is proper. We should
not be bragging about what we do to avoid getting caught up in seeing how
righteous we are, we should not be stressing over am I doing enough to please
God, because you cannot do enough to earn God's good grace and mercy.
Kelly
08 May 11
Originally posted by KellyJayHow much of what you are saying here is clearly supported by the words of Christ?
Look at it this way, the root cause for our actions is what we are talking about
here! If our good deeds are just to get into heaven, than we are working for
our salvation, if our good deeds are to be seen by men to show how good we
are, we have our reward when we are seen. If our good deeds are to meet the
needs around us, because there are needs to be ...[text shortened]... enough to please
God, because you cannot do enough to earn God's good grace and mercy.
Kelly
I notice you make sweeping statements which have very little, if any support from Christ or Paul for that matter. This is why I asked you if you are guilty of doing the same thing which you accuse the JWs of doing - making laws which are not in the Bible.
For example you stated that following the commandments of Christ is not enough for salvation. How can any serious Christian make such a statement is baffling when Christ stated the exact opposite.
Also it is pointless trying to judge people hearts and motives. I have no interest in why people do good deeds. What I am certain of is that Christ said very clearly over and over that He is going to judge people according to their works.
In any event, I cannot seem to find anywhere in the Bible where Christ or Paul condems anyone (the way you do) for doing good deeds so that they will get salvation. Can you provide such a verse ?