"Babylon the Great"

@rajk999 said
Do I look like I need your help?

The angels respond to the cooperation of man with God.
The angels are "ministering spirits sent forth for service for the sake of those who are to inherit salvation." (Hebrews 1:14)

the reason for the archangel Michael suddenly warring against Satan and his angels is to SERVE the collective group called the manchild, of whom Christ being a man is the Head overcomer.

"And she bought forth a son, a manchild, who is to shepherd all the nations with an iron rod, and her child was caught up to God and to His throne." (Rev. 12:5)

"And there was war in heaven; Michael and his angels went to war with the dragon. And the dragon warred and his angels." (v.6)

This strategic warring is the result of the victorious manchild breaking through the age long opposition of the dragon. God vindicating them by resurrection and catching up into the seat of His authority.

The angels who are "ministering spirits" serving those who inherit salvation see the tipping of the scales in favor of the saints of God. And to serve them they do their obedient part to drive down the accuser of God's people.

You know in the book of Job Satan still had the freedom to appear before God in the third heavens and accuse God's people to God, such as Job.

The plural pronouns "they, their, they, their" refer to the collective unit the manchild whom the angels serve, warring on their behalf.

"And I heard a loud voice in heaven, saying, Now has come the salvation and the power and the kingdom of our God and the authority of His Christ, for the accuser of our brothers has been cast down, who accuses them before our God day and night." (v.10)

@galveston75 said
Yep your heart is closed up. Can't help you there so it is what it is.

"And THEY overcame him because of the blood of the Lamb and because of the word of their testimony and they loved not their soul life even unto death." (v.11)


When I say Christ is the Head I mean He as God-man was the first and Pioneer, our Joshua leading many sons into glory, who resurrected and ascended. I do not mean Christ overcome by being redeemed by the blood of the Lamb. He is the Lamb.

But He is also the Firstborn from the dead, the Overcomer as the standard model. What God meant by human being - one with God and victorious expressing God and reigning for God over His dominion.

They overcomers are a collective - "THEY, THEIR" .
Angels do overcome the dragon above. But they do not do so by "the blood of the Lamb" sinful man requires. Neither had any of the angels "loved not their soul-life even unto death."

Human martyrs following Jesus Christ did so.
Bottom line - Michael the archangel heads the ministering spirits sent forth to serve those who inherit salvation.

@galveston75 said
Nothing new there at all. No mysteries. I completely agree.

Now before Gods son came to earth what was his name? Did he not have one? Seems rather odd don't you think that according to you he apparently had no name????

Read and learn something today........

The Bible’s answer
Michael, referred to by some religions as “Saint Michael,” is evidently a name give ...[text shortened]... ation such as has not occurred since the world’s beginning.”​—Matthew 24:21, 42.
ijwbq article 121

'

The people who receive the light of revelation this way from the book of Revelation did so because of experience of spiritual warfare.

It is not simply because of human smarts and being about to naturally organize and categorize everything in the Bible. Experience in obedience and victory in spiritual warfare opened their eyes to deeper significances of difficult chapters.

@galveston75 said
So tell me in detail why Jesus couldn't be Michael?

@medullah said
Anyone that can’t get Kraken is in need of serious help - you included !!

First Thessalonians 4:16 is taught by JWs to mean Christ is the archangel whose voice is heard here in this dramatic rapture of believers from the earth.

"Because the Lord Himself, with the shout of command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God, will descend from heaven, and the dead in Christ will rise first."

Does anyone believe that "the dead in Christ" means those who died in Michael the archangel?

The voice of an angel accompanies the Son of Man reaping the harvest of the earth from the cloud in Revelation 14:14-16

"And I saw, and behold, there was a white cloud, and on the cloud One like the Son of Man sitting, having a golden crown on His head and a sharp sickle in His hand." (v.14)

This Son of Man should be the Lord Jesus not the angel who is about to come out of the heavenly temple and shout.

"And another angel came out of the temple, CRYING WITH A LOUD VOICE to Him [the Son of Man] who sat on the cloud, Send forth Your sickle and reap for the hour to reap has come because the harvest of the earth is ripe." (v.15)

This should be the shout of command from the archangel at the catching up to the air in First Thess. 4:16. The two passages are about the same event.

"And He who sat on the cloud thrust His sickle upon the earth, and the earth was reaped." (v.16)


The archangel does the shout of command. The Son of Man Christ does the reaping.

The groups accused of being a cult in the thread so far are the JW's; Mormons; and Recovery movement (I know nothing of them)

When divegeester used the term it appeared by his post to be defined (by him) as anyone not accepting Jesus as God (Jehovah to some) incarnate. I would say that my father had a lot to do with the Mormons at one stage (Elder Stephens was my hero as a kid) and I worked for a Mormon (terrific bloke), and they do regard Jesus as Jehovah (Psalm 83:18)

Raj has also used the term

So let's open up what might be a can or worms (who cares eh?)

according to Webster's dictionary

Essential Meaning of cult

1: a small religious group that is not part of a larger and more accepted religion and that has beliefs regarded by many people as extreme or dangerous
a satanic cult
cult members

2: a situation in which people admire and care about something or someone very much or too much
He criticizes the way journalists promote the cult of celebrity in modern America. [=the tendency of people to care too much about famous people]
a cult of personality = a personality cult

3: a small group of very devoted supporters or fans
a cult of admirers
She has developed a cult following.

So are we really saying that these groups fit this description? And for the record we were having a poke at Sonship on another thread and I wouldn't subscribe to his belief system being classed as any of this either in all honesty. He (as most of us) has read the bible and come up with a different conclusion about several key points.

@rajk999 said
Lol .. for sure if the local Kingdom Hall is selling Kraken I will be their best customer but I aint taking any doctrine from them .. no sir.

@medullah said
Local Kingdom hall is offering Watchtowers at £10 with a free litre bottle of Kraken thrown in. You should see how many copies of The Watchtower and The Awake I have in my garage 😆

@sonship said

Bottom line - Michael the archangel heads the ministering spirits sent forth to serve those who inherit salvation.

@rajk999 said
Would have done the same except it wont be in my garage ... 😀

@medullah

So are we really saying that these groups fit this description? And for the record we were having a poke at Sonship on another thread and I wouldn't subscribe to his belief system being classed as any of this either in all honesty. He (as most of us) has read the bible and come up with a different conclusion about several key points.