"Babylon the Great"

@suzianne said
You have GOT to be kidding with this post.

But I know you're not, so...

@galveston75 said
Sometimes the truth isn't comfortable, is it? And no I'm not kidding. So sorry. Are you kidding?

@pb1022 said
Are you kidding with your belief Jesus Christ was/is an angel?

How do you square that with the Scriptures in Hebrews and Revelation? (Among other places, including the Messianic prophecies.)

@galveston75 said
Oh for sure it can be. I wouldn't want to be the ones that have done that. But if one "test scripture with scripture" and does a little research and deeply prays to Jehovah, he will make sure you get the correct understandings from him in the bible.
The constant bashing the Witnesses get is that we've changed the bible to suit our needs or beliefs. But to the contrary w ...[text shortened]... o get out of her" Christendom, which is filled with teachings still practiced with pagan influences.

For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace” (Isaiah 9:6).

So according to the prophet Isaiah, the child, the son, is Jesus …and he shall be called the “mighty god”. Black and white bang to rights no-messing. You would think.

But oh no, according to Galveston75 and Robbie Carrobie

- Jehovah is almighty god - in the scripture above
- Jesus is mighty god - again from the scripture
- Jesus is also an angel - not clear where this comes from

Bending scripture to fit one’s belief structure gives you -

- 2 gods, one of which is an angel!

The OP opens with Revelation 14:8. My last post was about Rev. 19:1-4
Some may be interested in the relationship.

Rev. 14:1 is proclaimed by an angel - "And another angel, a second on followed, saying Fallen, fallen is Babylon the Great." Of course the angels have no part in Babylon

Rev. 19:11-14 is made by humans rescued from that state of Babylon. " . . . a loud voice of a great multitude in heaven, saying, Hallelujah! . . . He has judged the great harlot who corrupted the earth . . . Hallelujah! And her smoke goes up forever and ever."

These are saints, believers of God raptured to heaven shortly before God judges Babylon on earth - both her religious aspect and her material aspect. Both the RCC and the city of Rome.

The time of the angel proclaiming "Fallen, fallen is Babylon the Great" is mentioned just before the main events of the great tribulation - the horrible activity of the Antichrist in Rev. 14:9-12. This shows the judgement of Babylon the Great starts with the commencement of the reign of the Antichrist.

The ones raptured to the third heaven before this time are the overcomers raptured as the manchild three and one half years before the closing of the age in Rev. 12:5,6.

And she brought forth a son, a manchild, who is to shepherd all the nations with an iron rod; and her child was caught up to God and to His throne. And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she has a place there prepared by God so that they might nourish her there a thousand and two hundred and sixty days." (vs. 5,6)

These are a corporate group - "And I heard a loud voice in heaven, saying, Now has come the salvation and the power and the kingdom of our God and the authority of His Christ, for the accuser of our brothers has been cast down. who accuses them before our God day and night. And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb and because of the word of their testimony, and they loved not their soul life even unto death."

Angels neither die nor need the redeeming blood of Christ the Lamb of God. So these overcomers are human brothers (and sisters).

The rejoicing in chapter 19 is in response to the cry of the martyred believers who while in the realm of Hades besought God as to WHEN He would avenge their blood upon those dwelling on the earth. This was seen in the opening of the fifth seal in Rev. 6.

"And when He opened the fifth seal, I saw underneath the altar the souls of those who had been slain because of the word of God and because of the testimony which they had. And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Master, holy and true, will You not judge and avenge our blood on those who dwell on the earth?"
They are told to be patient until more of their brothers, their fellow slaves would be also killed.

"And to each of them was given a white robe; and it was said to them that they should rest yet a little while, until also the number of their fellow slaves and their brothers who were about to be killed, even as they were, is completed." (6:11)

These are the overcomers raptured, rejoicing, in heaven, and about to attend the marriage dinner of the Lamb in Revelation 19:7-9.

The ones crying out underneath the altar are the deceased overcomers resting there in Hades. They are those who were raptured in chapter 12 to God and to His throne.

However, there will be living saints also who will be raptured near that time. Some of them are seen chapter 14 as the 144,000 Firstfruits standing on a Mt. Zion in the heavens. and others of them are seen raptured in Matthew 24 and Luke 17.

The bottom line here is that overcomers who whom God is pleased as having come up to the standard of the normal spiritual life will come from the ages past of those who died, those who were persecuted by Babylon, and those who are living on earth at that time.

Both from the deceased and from those who never taste physical death but are raptured just before the great tribulation, God is well pleased with to reward them in addition the their having received the gifts of eternal life, eternal redemption and justification by faith.

How greatly consistent is God's faithfulness here. Some living ones will be as Enoch who walked with God and was suddenly taken, not to be found on the earth. And Some sleeping (in death) overcoming ones go up also. No wonder it is a great multitude seen rejoicing in heaven in chapter 19.

"After these things I heard as it were a loud voice of a great multitude in heaven . . . " (19:1)

MY next post will say something about the Triune God possibly seen in chapter 19 as well. I add this because some diversion into the Trinity took place with some posters.

For those reading for whom this is way, way, too much Bible study - "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you." is called by people everywhere "the Golden Rule."

Something for everyone here practically.

@sonship

I hope that your next post will be a helluva lot shorter - your taking the p*ss posting three full length pages like that. I refuse to read them - this is laziness on your behalf. Instead of giving us a précis you cut and paste swathes of crepe

@sonship

Three sections on this last page and five sections on page 1

Irrespective of what anyone’s take is on Galveston at least he doesn’t try and make us suffer multiple page cut and paste of The Watchtower which is what effectively you are doing.

Bang out of order sir !!!!

@medullah

Apparently you didn't see galveston's substantially long post from some sources on the history of the Trinity and Babylonian religion according to them.

I fault no one for having less capacity to digest me breaking up my contribution into more than one post.

If it is too much for you to take in, I am sorry. Some people have a bit more capacity and hunger for Scripture exposition.

Sometimes I am less verbose. Often brevity only generates snarks, retorts and pointing out what I did not write which I should have.