Barriers to belief

Originally posted by FMF
Oh dear. You are unravelling. What "evidence" do you want? [b]You are making the extraordinary claims about supernatural things ~ not me ~ and you offer no evidence at all. Just assertions. And your certainty. And sincerity. I am making no claims whatsoever about supernatural things. None. No claims. I am not asking you believe any claims about supernatural beings or events or about things like immortality and eternal torture and "sin".[/b]

So claiming to believe that God exists is not a supernatural claim?

Originally posted by Fetchmyjunk
So claiming to believe that God exists is not a supernatural claim?

I said I am open to the possibility that God exists and - no - that is not a claim I am making about supernatural things, and - no - I do not have to provide you with evidence that I am open to the possibility that God exists. Good grief. Do you really not understand? If you listened to what people say and didn't just blank it out and ignore it, your understanding of people who have different beliefs from you would increase. It ought to be your objective in hanging out on a debate and discussion forum.

Originally posted by Fetchmyjunk
If I told you that I had a gut feeling would that be ok with you? Or is it only ok if you have a gut feeling?

What gut feeling you have is a matter for you.

Why would whether I think it's "OK" matter to you?

Originally posted by Fetchmyjunk
If I told you that I had a gut feeling would that be ok with you? Or is it only ok if you have a gut feeling?

This strange little retort of yours was supposedly an answer to this:

The evidence that we all die - get buried or cremated (mostly) - and that that is the end of our lives, is available and obvious to everyone. I have been attending funerals and paying my respects to people who are dead and gone in cemeteries for as long as I can remember. There is zero evidence that even a single one of those dead people is still somehow alive in some shape or form, somewhere. So, what evidence do you have to the contrary?

Your retort very obviously and very pointedly did not address it.

So, I am asking you again.

Originally posted by FMF
I said I am open to the possibility that God exists and - no - that is not a claim I am making about supernatural things, and - no - I do not have to provide you with evidence that I am open to the possibility that God exists. Good grief. Do you really not understand? If you listened to what people say and didn't just blank it out and ignore it, your understandi ...[text shortened]... u would increase. It ought to be your objective in hanging out on a debate and discussion forum.

Why are you open to the possibility that God exists but not open to the possibility of an afterlife?

Originally posted by Fetchmyjunk
Why are you open to the possibility that God exists but not open to the possibility of an afterlife?

Because of a gut feeling - something that certainly does not constitute a concrete or 'active' belief - about the nature of the world in which we live and our moral hard wiring, as I have explained before, repeatedly. I don't need you or even want you to share this perception of the world or of ourselves as humans. The idea that we are immortal just seems like wishful thinking and nonsense to me. So, once again, what evidence do you have that you are going on to live forever in the afterlife?

Originally posted by FMF
Because of a gut feeling - something that certainly does not constitute a concrete or 'active' belief - about the nature of the world in which we live and our moral hard wiring, as I have explained before, repeatedly. I don't need you or even want you to share this perception of the world or of ourselves as humans. The idea that we are immortal just seems like w ...[text shortened]... o, once again, what evidence do you have that you are going on to live forever in the afterlife?

I believe God exists and that he has revealed truth about an afterlife in the Bible.

Do you believe the statement, "God exists" is true or false?

Originally posted by Fetchmyjunk
Do you believe the statement, "God exists" is true or false?

I cannot categorically state either but I am open to the possibility.

Originally posted by Fetchmyjunk
I believe God exists and that he has revealed truth about an afterlife in the Bible.

I know you do. And I know you believe that the Bible is something more than just a product of anthropology, geography and psychology. But you have given me no convincing reason to share your belief about God or about the Bible.

Originally posted by Fetchmyjunk
So you don't require evidence for your own beliefs, but demand evidence for someone else's beliefs. Hypocritical don't you think?

Why don't you answer his question?

Originally posted by divegeester
Why don't you answer his question?

I think he's offered 'because the Bible says so' but I don't see how he thinks that is valid evidence to me. I mean, what reason do I have to believe something is so because the Bible says so?

Originally posted by FMF
I cannot categorically state either but I am open to the possibility.

So is there any possible statement about the supernatural that you believe is either true or false?

Originally posted by Fetchmyjunk
So is there any possible statement about the supernatural that you believe is either true or false?

Yes. This: it's true for me to say that I find your pronouncements about the supernatural to be far-fetched and incredible.

Originally posted by Fetchmyjunk
So is there any possible statement about the supernatural that you believe is either true or false?

Why don't you answer his question?

Originally posted by FMF
I know you do. And I know you believe that the Bible is something more than just a product of anthropology, geography and psychology. But you have given me no convincing reason to share your belief about God or about the Bible.

What would be the point of me giving you a reason if you claim to be incapable of deciding whether or not the reason is convincing?