Before the Universe Was

Here are a number of things the Bible says God was involved in before He created the universe.

1.) Before the founndation of the world (before the existence of the universe) God loved the Son.

From Christ's mighty prayer before crucifixion in John 17:

"Father, concerning that which You have given Me, I desire that they also may be with Me where I am, that they may behold My glory, which You have given Me, for You loved Me before the foundation of the world." (John 17:24)

The love of the Father for the Son transcends time and space and was before the bringing into existence time and space.

Before the foundation of the world - the creation of all creation -

2.) God foreordained the Son to be the Anointed and Appointed One - the Christ.

[Christ] Who was foreknown before the foundation of the world but has been manifested in the last times for your sake. (1 Pet. 1:20)

Before God created the universe He (as far as we are able to imagine the unimaginable - eternity past) foreordained God the Son to be the Christ - the Anointed One for the universe.

3.) Before the foundation of the world God chose us who have the gift of eternal life to be His sons also. That is to be holy, separated from all other things but God Himself and unto God sharing His nature but not His Godhead. That is to be with no foreign element of damage - without blemish - sonship.

"Even as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world to be holy and without blemish before Him in love. Predestinating us unto sonship through Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will." (Eph. 1:4,5)

How good it would be if a man or woman's realization of the need to be saved was UPLIFTED to the standard of Ephesians.

Ie. "Lord Jesus, I receive You into my heart as Lord and Savior not just because I need to be saved from hell. But because before the foundation of the universe you desired to have sons before You in love. Lord according to Your eternal good pleasure, I surrender myself to You salvation. Thankyou Lord Jesus. Thankyou Father."

4.) God gave us grace before the times of the ages - before the creation of the world. Grace is the enjoyment of God as everything we need. It is not only God's benefit OVER us but God's benefit living IN us as well.

[God] "Who saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works but according to His own purpose and grace, which was given to us in Christ Jesus before the times of the ages." (1 Timothy 1:9)

How wonderful it would be for a man to become a Christian with a high view that God has ordained an eternal purpose and grace for him before the times of the ages - before the creation.

ie. "Lord Jesus, thankyou for Your precious redemption that I may obtain that wonderful blessing You ordained for me before the times of all the ages of time - before You even created time and space. Thankyou Lord Jesus for You grace to me."

5.) Before the creation of the universe God promised the uncreated eternal life of Himself would be given into His saved people. no matter what was to go wrong in creation God promised His people to have eternal life.

"In the hope of eternal life, which God, who cannot lie, promised before the times of the ages ..." (Titus 1:2)

What other things might we discovered were part of God's doings before the creation of the world ?

@sonship said
5.) Before the creation of the
What other things might we discovered were part of God's doings before the creation of the world ?

Trying to decide how as an immortal eternal spirit he could become mortal flesh and subsequently intervene in the temporal affairs and connective spiritual condition of mankind, without people thinking he was multiple people and then them turn that into a doctrine linked to salvation?

First thing that comes to mind...

Fascinating. It still says.

"Father, ... for You loved Me before the foundation of the world." (John 17:24)

It still says

[Christ] Who was foreknown before the foundation of the world ... (1 Pet. 1:20)

It still says here -

"Even as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world to be holy and without blemish before Him in love. Predestinating us unto sonship through Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will." (Eph. 1:4,5)

Fascinating! Its still here in the Bible:

[God] "Who saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works but according to His own purpose and grace, which was given to us in Christ Jesus before the times of the ages." (1 Timothy 1:9)

Fascinating. It still reads -

"In the hope of eternal life, which God, who cannot lie, promised before the times of the ages ..." (Titus 1:2)

The passages are still there.

@divegeester

Trying to decide how as an immortal eternal spirit he could become mortal flesh and subsequently intervene in the temporal affairs and connective spiritual condition of mankind, without people thinking he was multiple people and then them turn that into a doctrine linked to salvation?

First thing that comes to mind...

Do you mean as the Apostle John wrote something like this ?

"Everyone who denies the Son does not have the Father either; he who confesses the Son has the Father also." (1 John 2:23)

To deny one is to not have the other.
To confess one is to possess the other.

Is that what you mean? Are you going to blame that on, say, the Nicene Creed ?

Or here, the Apostle John says that to deny that "Jesus is the Christ" = to deny "the Father and the Son".

"Who is the liar if not he who denies that Jesus is the Christ? This is the antichrist, the one who denies the Father and the Son." (1 John 2:22)

The teaching of "another Jesus" or "instead of Jesus" or "antichrist" is the one who denies that Jesus is the Christ.

And to deny that Jesus is the Anointed One, the Christ, is to deny "the Father and the Son".

That's what it says. I didn't put it there.

@sonship said
before the bringing into existence time and space.

How do you reconcile your use of the word "before" without reference to time?

@sonship said
@divegeester
Do you mean as the Apostle John wrote something like this ?

"Everyone who denies the Son does not have the Father either; he who confesses the Son has the Father also." (1 John 2:23)

No, I don’t mean something like that.

@wolfgang59

How do you reconcile your use of the word "before" without reference to time?

The limitation of human language to discuss this, I think, calls for us using expressions as best we can to convey it.

You are right though. In John 1:1 where the Apostle writes -
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God" he is really saying - the beginning which is WITHOUT a beginning - eternity.

This is the difference between Genesis 1:1 and John 1:1.
In Genesis 1:1 - "In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth" is the beginning of time and space.

In John 1:1 - "[T]he beginning" is eternity with no beginning.

"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God."

@sonship said
@wolfgang59
he is really saying - the beginning which is WITHOUT a beginning - eternity.

Now you are making no sense at all.

First you assert there was a "before" prior to the existence of time.
Now you talk of a "beginning" which doesn't have a beginning.

It is exactly this mish-mash of undefined concepts and words that
bedazzled the uneducated of previous generations which now just
makes religion look rather silly verbal smoke and mirrors.

@wolfgang59 said
Now you are making no sense at all.

First you assert there was a "before" prior to the existence of time.
Now you talk of a "beginning" which doesn't have a beginning.

It is exactly this mish-mash of undefined concepts and words that
bedazzled the uneducated of previous generations which now just
makes religion look rather silly verbal smoke and mirrors.

I've said this a few times before.
We live in this moment called 'now,' it is so small its leading edge and trailing edge occupy the same period. God isn't limited to 'now,' or anything else within our universe, time, matter, energy, space are the reality we find ourselves in, God transcends all of that. Challenging to grasp, but His nature eclipses all things within the universe, which sets Him apart from all that is here, the universe cannot contain Him.

@sonship said
@wolfgang59
If Stephen Hawking said something hard for you to understand, you'd be slobbering all over with enthusiasm.

@sonship said
@wolfgang59
If Stephen Hawking said something hard for you to understand, you'd be slobbering all over with enthusiasm.

You want your intellect and words to be perceived and treated as being comparable to Stephen Hawking's?