17 Oct 23
@kellyjay saidAnd this takes us back to the Romans, as it was prophecies that they would draw lots for his garments, and I believe that no bronze would be broken?
Christ's life was foretold before He was born, His life talked about before He was born, as was His death. The earth and everything in it is not the prize, everything here is temporary.
@rajk999 saidMy observations would lead me to conclude that the average Christian doesn’t know what it’s all about. You and I may differ, but we can both defend our positions (and I think that should be extended to Kelly). If the average Christian had to defend their position I doubt that they could.
The Holy Spirit is not with most Christians, and certainly not with Christianity as a group. Christians pretend they have the Holy Spirit. They lie, and they deceive people into believing that they can do miracles, speak in tongues and heal the sick. It has been proven over and over that they do no such things and they are all a sham.
Yet many Christians live sinful ma ...[text shortened]... demn Christians who have not supported homosexuality. Their morals are gone. They have joined Satan.
With many I suspect “Christian” is something that you put on you passport.
@rajk999 saidSorry quite right 👍
James said that. Paul said similar stuff, but not are clearly. Paul also mixed it in with ..profess faith in Christ and you are saved ... . So that muddles the doctrine if not properly interpreted.
So it was Jesus’s brother that made that observation ?
@medullah saidThen shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels: For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not. .... And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal. (Matthew 25:41-46 KJV)
@Rajk999
An we have a definition of damnation please, just so that we are clear?
Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation. (John 5:28-29 KJV)
@medullah saidYes. But dont get me wrong, Paul said the same thing but because Paul also said / implied faith alone saves, then that is what Christians hold on to. But Pater, John all focused on good works.
Sorry quite right 👍
So it was Jesus’s brother that made that observation ?
Paul said that faith without works is like like a tinkling cymbal .. aka nothing, dead.
Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal. And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing. And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned, and have not charity, it profiteth me nothing. (1 Corinthians 13:1-3 KJV)
But Christians twist that as well.
@moonbus saidGame software developers often respond to users calling certain aspects of a game "buggy", by merely saying "Working as intended".
The coming of some messiah or other was foretold. That the aforesaid person was Jesus was redacted after the fact (by whoever decided which scrolls to canonize and call a New Testament). The Jews don't accept that Jesus was the prophesied messiah -- and why should they, after all, it's their convenant, which somebody else hijacked and re-interpreted.
As H.L. Mencken said, "the documents have been tampered with."
I think this applies here.
The Jews, over history, have continually taken their scripture, the supposed "Word of God", and mis-interpreted it. They have made many theological mistakes over the period of the Old Testament, and they've been punished as a people for every single one. The good news for them is found in Revelation, where it is revealed that the Jews will eventually have their "come to Jesus" moment.
18 Oct 23
@ghost-of-a-duke saidAnd yet I've gotten much pushback on this subject in this forum, usually by those who don't quite understand Christianity or history.
That passage needs to be read in context old chap (something Kelly repeatedly fails to do, plucking out the 'dirty rag' riff to suit his purpose).
Read on and Isaiah 65:1-7 describes the false righteousness of the people, which helps clarify when 'righteous deeds' are like filthy rags. God is clearly angry at the pseudo-righteous deeds of religious hypocrites. He is not telling His people that righteous living is impossible or beyond them.
I simply say, "Same as it ever was."
18 Oct 23
@suzianne saidSo you disagree with moonbus?
Game software developers often respond to users calling certain aspects of a game "buggy", by merely saying "Working as intended".
I think this applies here.
The Jews, over history, have continually taken their scripture, the supposed "Word of God", and mis-interpreted it. They have made many theological mistakes over the period of the Old Testament, and they've been ...[text shortened]... in Revelation, where it is revealed that the Jews will eventually have their "come to Jesus" moment.
18 Oct 23
@ghost-of-a-duke saidI'm not misquoting that passage, clearly or otherwise.
Bumped for Kelly's benefit.
Are you going to stop misquoting that passage?
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18 Oct 23
@kellyjay saidThank you for taking the time to post that.
I'm not misquoting that passage, clearly or otherwise.
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18 Oct 23
Isaiah 65:1-7 describes the false righteousness of the people, which helps clarify when 'righteous deeds' are like filthy rags. God is clearly angry at the pseudo-righteous deeds of religious hypocrites. He is not telling His people that righteous living is impossible or beyond them.
Kelly fails to understand this and prefers to stick his head in the sand and use 'filthy rags' out of context. - I don't think scripture is meant to be used in such a fashion.
18 Oct 23
@rajk999 saidYou do not take what the Lord says seriously, this is just a means by which you ignore something and accept others. You blow off Jesus' words we must be born again, why, it came up in conversation with just one person as if that is the only guy in the entire human race who must be born again while the conversation was about the Kingdom of God.
I tend to disagree with that. It is always important when reading the bible to look at who is being addressed. Jesus here is speaking to his 11 disciples. When Jesus spoke to the thousands he never told anyone to go preach all over the world or even door to door. This instruction is specifically to those disciples [there were others as well, 70 I think], who were given th ...[text shortened]... r
- live righteously
- be merciful
- make peace
These things are sufficient for eternal life.