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For Kelly's benefit:
@kingdavid403 said
Read on and Isaiah 65:1-7 describes the false righteousness of the people, which helps clarify when 'righteous deeds' are like filthy rags. God is clearly angry at the pseudo-righteous deeds of religious hypocrites.
I agree. Isaiah was a Prophet before, during, and after the first destruction of the Jewish temple. It's fairly clear he was chewing out the supposed religious leaders of that day; the same as Jesus did the next time around.
He is not telling His people that righteous living is impossible or beyond them.
Again, I agree. However, God does say that even the righteous will fall at times; and, that they will pick themselves up and keep striving forward into righteousness. Which we will never reach in the flesh. No one is or will ever be perfect on this earth in the flesh.
18 Oct 23
@ghost-of-a-duke saidHe is a frustrated man trying in vain to defend a failed doctrine that he has treasured for decades. In that situation the most stupid things come out of your mouth.
Probably one of the daftest posts you have made in these forums. (On multiple levels).
@kellyjay saidI'm very familiar with this theology. I never could get on board. It's a system that treats the teller of 1 lie as badly as the taker of 1,000 lives, because they are both imperfect.
Good works are good works, and the motivation behind them can be good or bad, we are quite capable of doing good works, and evil ones. The point is righteousness, our good works do not make us righteous, still we are to do them as they are what we should be doing, as it has been said here more than a few times none of us are perfect, while being perfect is what is required! ...[text shortened]... n for how bad it is, I'm not over-analyzing this, I'm pointing out the seriousness of our condition.
Sorry, but that's not anything that resembles justice.
19 Oct 23
@ghost-of-a-duke saidFrom Isiah 65
For Kelly's benefit:
@kingdavid403 said
Read on and Isaiah 65:1-7 describes the false righteousness of the people, which helps clarify when 'righteous deeds' are like filthy rags. God is clearly angry at the pseudo-righteous deeds of religious hypocrites.
I agree. Isaiah was a Prophet before, during, and after the first destruction of the Jewish ...[text shortened]... ich we will never reach in the flesh. No one is or will ever be perfect on this earth in the flesh.
Isaiah 65
English Standard Version
I was ready to be sought by those who did not ask for me; I was ready to be found by those who did not seek me. I said, “Here I am, here I am,” to a nation that was not called by my name. I spread out my hands all the day to a rebellious people, who walk in a way that is not good, following their own devices; a people who provoke me to my face continually, sacrificing in gardens and making offerings on bricks; who sit in tombs, and spend the night in secret places; who eat pig's flesh, and broth of tainted meat is in their vessels; who say, “Keep to yourself, do not come near me, for I am too holy for you.”
These are a smoke in my nostrils, a fire that burns all the day. Behold, it is written before me: “I will not keep silent, but I will repay; I will indeed repay into their lap both your iniquities and your fathers' iniquities together, says the Lord; because they made offerings on the mountains and insulted me on the hills, I will measure into their lap payment for their former deeds.”
It would not be a righteous judgment if we were not able to do the right thing, we are and we do not, our sinful nature plays a part in that, which is why as Jesus told Nicodemus when they were discussing the Kingdom of God we must be born again to even see the Kingdom. They didn't have a false righteousness they had a corrupt wicked sinful righteousness and thought themselves wise, again Isaiah makes it clear that they needed the Lord, and they had to come to Him on His terms, they didn't get to make it up as they go and expect that God to bless and accept them that way. You are not going to be righteous without God, He is righteous, you are not going to be good without God, He is good, they turned from God to go their own ways and their own ways were not what God called them into.
I agree we all fall, we all fail, which makes the grace and love of God so amazing, it doesn't depend on our merit, our own righteousness. It depends on God, it wasn't because the people were such a prize that Jesus came to save us, it was because God loved us while we were yet sinners. Our faith has to be in God not ourselves, we will fail, but He is greater.
John 3
No one has ascended into heaven except he who descended from heaven, the Son of Man. And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, so must the Son of Man be lifted up, that whoever believes in him may have eternal life.
“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God.
Romans 20
Romans 3:20-22
English Standard Version
For by works of the law no human being will be justified in his sight, since through the law comes knowledge of sin.
But now the righteousness of God has been manifested apart from the law, although the Law and the Prophets bear witness to it— the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all who believe. For there is no distinction:
@kellyjay saidWhat a load of church baloney. What is this? ...a corrupt wicked sinful righteousness and thought themselves wise ... The bible has no such thing.
From Isiah 65
Isaiah 65
English Standard Version
I was ready to be sought by those who did not ask for me; I was ready to be found by those who did not seek me. I said, “Here I am, here I am,” to a nation that was not called by my name. I spread out my hands all the day to a rebellious people, who walk in a way that is not good, following their own devices; a people who ...[text shortened]... righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all who believe. For there is no distinction:
God is saying clearly that these people are doing evil and are not obeying Him. The issue is OBEDIENCE and the people are DISOBEDIENT. Nobody in these passages are proclaiming to be wise or believing that they are doing righteousness.
Why cant you quote or represent the bible truthfully?
19 Oct 23
@bigdogg saidYou have to look at it from God’s perspective not ours, He cannot over look evil/sin in any degree unlike us who can say that is not so bad!
I'm very familiar with this theology. I never could get on board. It's a system that treats the teller of 1 lie as badly as the taker of 1,000 lives, because they are both imperfect.
Sorry, but that's not anything that resembles justice.
Perfectly righteous means exactly that, less than He would not be God, His righteousness, goodness and all His other attributes will remain in perfect harmony, none will suffer for the sake of another. Which is what you seem to be asking for in saying the teller of one lie is not as bad as one who tells more. For His name sake is a big deal, He will not deny Himself.
19 Oct 23
@rajk999 saidDeceiver, why do you concern yourself about something you don’t understand or respect?
What a load of church baloney. What is this? ...a corrupt wicked sinful righteousness and thought themselves wise ... The bible has no such thing.
God is saying clearly that these people are doing evil and are not obeying Him. The issue is OBEDIENCE and the people are DISOBEDIENT. Nobody in these passages are proclaiming to be wise or believing that they are doing righteousness.
Why cant you quote or represent the bible truthfully?
19 Oct 23
@rajk999 saidAll have sinned and fallen short it’s something you seem to forget but manage to apply it to just those who you disagree with!
What a load of church baloney. What is this? ...a corrupt wicked sinful righteousness and thought themselves wise ... The bible has no such thing.
God is saying clearly that these people are doing evil and are not obeying Him. The issue is OBEDIENCE and the people are DISOBEDIENT. Nobody in these passages are proclaiming to be wise or believing that they are doing righteousness.
Why cant you quote or represent the bible truthfully?
19 Oct 23
@kellyjay saidWhat is this about .... corrupt wicked sinful righteousness ..
All have sinned and fallen short it’s something you seem to forget but manage to apply it to just those who you disagree with!
There is no such thing as sinful righteousness. ... You moron.
19 Oct 23
1 edit
@rajk999 saidSin is corrupt, wicked, and what they were thinking was their righteousness by their understanding was not to God. Jesus called some white washed as on the outside they maintained an outward appearance of righteous, but inside they were something else.
What is this about .... corrupt wicked sinful righteousness ..
There is no such thing as sinful righteousness. ... You moron.
You promote righteousness by works without Christ, repentance, or picking up our crosses to follow Him. So you fit this narrative as you spew your self righteousness justification.