Belief in the Resurrection & Satan

@divegeester said
Would you place @sonship’s contributions above or at the same level as @Romans1009’s, whom you claimed was one of the best posters on this website?

This is the second time that you have mentioned Romans since Easter 2019.

@philokalia said
This is the second time that you have mentioned Romans since Easter 2019.

You nominated him and not sonship as the best high volume poster on the Spirituality Forum in 2018.

@divegeester said
No, we are not talking about “dark desires” “temptations” or what you “imagine”. We are talking about the actual influence of Satan and satanic forces in people’s lives and the impact on their beliefs... currently your beliefs, your behaviour, your life.

You have admitted in this forum that you choose to have sexual relations with a women you are not married to. Acco ...[text shortened]... anic forces.

Surely this deserves more comment from you than a glib “what a bummer”, doesn’t it?

My relationship and its sexual components predated my coming to Christ. When it began years ago, I was not religious at all, and indeed, contemplating joining even other religions.

I have since become a Christian.

In this process, I discussed my relationship status extensively, and because I am an adult in a relationship with a non-Christian, I was told that if I intend to marry the woman I can continue in sexual relations because this has been the norm, and to withhold sexual relations at this point would be fatal to the relationship. It actually required a lot of soulsearching and an extended period of time before I made the decision.

This falls in line with the classic concept of 'economy.'

The 102nd Trullian Canon prescribes that all epitimias in general prescribed by the holy canons to be applied not only by the letter, but to "guide men judiciously" (οικονομουντι σοφως τον ανθρωπο&nu😉, with attention to the disposition of each individual repentant, "to mete out mercy to him according as he is worthy of it." John Zonara, the most authoritative interpreter of the Holy Canons in the Middle Ages, in his clarification of this 102nd Trullian Canon, stressed that this pastoral oikonomia of the Church is not used for the aims of mankind, but those of God—the salvation of human souls: "For as with God, so it is with the pastor of souls," writes Zonara, "all the care and attention consists of the following: to return the wayward lamb and to heal those bitten by the serpent..." (Pravila Svyatykh Vselenskikh Soborov s Tolkovaniyami [Canons of the Holy Ecumenical Councils with Interpretations] Published by Izdaniye Moskovskogo Obshchestva liubitelei dukhovnogo prosveshcheniya [Moscow Society of Lovers of Spiritual Education], Moscow 1877, pp 611-612).

http://www.russianorthodoxchurch.ws/01newstucture/pagesen/articles/vlarina.html

@fmf said
You nominated him and not sonship as the best high volume poster on the Spirituality Forum in 2018.

That's right -- this is the second time you have brought up Romans since Pascha 2019. 🙂

You really remember that guy. He's your boy.

@fmf said
If you "fornicate" as a Christian ~ i.e. have sex outside marriage, something you mentioned you do in at least two posts addressed to me ~ how is that different from a Christian having homosexual sex?

Do you think homosexual sex/"fornication" is behaviour influenced by "Satan"?

Homosexuality is a more severe form of fornication because it is unnatural in nature; it is referred to as an 'abomination' in the Old Testament.

Yet, you are right -- to not repent for fornication is far, far deadlier than to have had a homosexual relationship and then to have subsequently repented it. The two wouldn't even compare.

@philokalia said
In this process, I discussed my relationship status extensively, and because I am an adult in a relationship with a non-Christian, I was told that if I intend to marry the woman I can continue in sexual relations because this has been the norm, and to withhold sexual relations at this point would be fatal to the relationship. It actually required a lot of soulsearching and an extended period of time before I made the decision.

Is this an example of you "becoming like Jesus"?

@philokalia said
Homosexuality is a more severe form of fornication because it is unnatural in nature; it is referred to as an 'abomination' in the Old Testament.

What does the New Testament say?

@philokalia said
Yet, you are right -- to not repent for fornication is far, far deadlier than to have had a homosexual relationship and then to have subsequently repented it. The two wouldn't even compare.

So, let me get this straight: you feel guilty and repentant before, during and after having sex outside marriage every time you do it, right?

@philokalia said
That's right -- this is the second time you have brought up Romans since Pascha 2019.

You can urge me to post in a way you like until you are blue in the face, but I will never post like Romans1009 or Eladar.

@fmf said
So, let me get this straight: you feel guilty and repentant before, during and after having sex outside marriage every time you do it, right?

LOL, no. It is a matter of oiknomia at this point: it has essentially been stated that my current relationship, as it has the intention of marriage, is acceptable. Though, of course, the status is inferior to having a proper one.

A comparison that could be drawn are traditional polygamists that are brought into the church: it would be immoral to ask a man to divorce several of his wives to be in line with the Church policy on monogamy, so the man is allowed to proceed as a polygamist but is told to no longer marry any more wives.

Likewise, a person in a relationship that was sexual prior to entering the Church can maintain said relationship as an adult if the intention to marry is present, and is not required to rush headlong into legal marriage in order to finalize it.

Indeed, in this case the sacrament of marriage is not even provided for the man or woman if their spouse is a non-Christian, but rather, the customary law of marriage alone is recognized, and so carrying on in the custom of marriage outside of the church is actually a normal form of it. We will be living without the sacrament either way.

@fmf said
You can urge me to post in a way you like until you are blue in the face, but I will never post like Romans1009 or Eladar.

This is the third time you have mentioned him now. ^^

@fmf said
What does the New Testament say?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosexuality_in_the_New_Testament

@philokalia said
LOL, no. It is a matter of oiknomia at this point: it has essentially been stated that my current relationship, as it has the intention of marriage, is acceptable. Though, of course, the status is inferior to having a proper one.

A comparison that could be drawn are traditional polygamists that are brought into the church: it would be immoral to ask a man to divorc ...[text shortened]... the church is actually a normal form of it. We will be living without the sacrament either way.

So "fornication" as you engage in it, is OK?

@philokalia said
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosexuality_in_the_New_Testament

Why is it much worse than your "fornication"?

@philokalia said
This is the third time you have mentioned him now. ^^

Only because you endorsed him and picked him out as "the best".