Beware the writings of the Watchman

@Ghost-of-a-Duke

Yep, you've tried to sell that snake oil already.

What else you got?

Standing on the
Shoulders

of Many Great Teachers
to See the Complete Picture
of God's Eternal Purpose

We are not boasting that we have seen the picture of God's eternal purpose, for we are standing on others' shoulders to see this vision. We thank God for those who have gone before us. Many great teachers are our support. We are standing on the shoulders of John Nelson Darby, Darby stood on the shoulders of Count von Zinzendorf, and Zinzendorf stood on the shoulders of Martin Luther. We have gone higher, not by ourselves but by standing on the shoulders of all the foregoing great teachers. The divine book has never been as open and clear to the church as it is today. Even twenty years ago the Bible was not as clear to us as it is today. It took us more than forty years to properly place some of the pieces of the puzzle. It is because of the Lord's mercy and grace that today we are able to see and speak of God's eternal purpose, which is to work Himself into all His chosen people as their life, nature, and everything so that they may be fully saturated by and with God Himself.

@sonship said
@Ghost-of-a-Duke

Yep, you've tried to sell that snake oil already.

What else you got?

Cute but lacking enthusiasm, skill, and any alternative careful explanation of the parable.

Why am I not suprised?

In the meantime. Lee gives homage to great teachers on whose shoulders Nee and Lee stood.

[b] Standing on the
Shoulders

of Many G ...[text shortened]... and with God Himself.

https://www.ministrybooks.org/SearchMinBooksDsp.cfm?id=0420EBDBEF

One gets the impression from Nee that the Bible was not nearly as important as Christians generally consider it. In his book The Ministry of God’s Word, Nee says, “Words alone cannot be considered God’s Word.” In this book, Nee becomes very philosophical, mystical and incoherent.

He says that only as we deliver the Word in terms of the “reality behind it,” using what he calls “Holy Spirit memory” and “presenting the pictures as well as speaking the words” will the words be correct; otherwise, they are not real.


From an article by G. Richard Fisher. (http://www.apologeticsindex.org)

@sonship said
@Rajk999

I gave no interpretation and none is required.

Then I take it as it is stated.

Two catagories of believers:

1.) "Saved" and Rewarded

2.) "Saved" as yet as through fire, who "suffer loss" ... (destroyed (v.17) )

To suffer loss is equivalent to "God shall destroy him".

You errone ...[text shortened]... means eternal destruction.
It is discipline "but he shall be saved yet so as through fire."

@sonship said

Two catagories of believers:

1.) "Saved" and Rewarded

2.) "Saved" as yet as through fire, who "suffer loss" ... (destroyed (v.17) )

To suffer loss is equivalent to "God shall destroy him".

You erroneously assume it means eternal destruction.
It is discipline "but he shall be saved yet so as through fire."

This is Witness Lee's viewpoint. ...[text shortened]... is very good.

Scripture REMAINS exalted above any teacher's interpretation of a passage anyway.

@Ghost-of-a-Duke

One gets the impression from Nee that the Bible was not nearly as important as Christians generally consider it.

In John 6:63 the Lord Jesus said, "The words which I have spoken to you are spirit." The words of the Bible are not only letters but spirit. We also should recall the Lord's word in John 4:24: "God is Spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit." Here the Lord points out a fundamental principle: God is Spirit, and man can only touch Him with his spirit. God is Spirit, and we can only worship Him with our spirit; we cannot worship Him with anything other than the spirit.
...
The Bible is not only a book with words or letters printed on pages of paper. The very nature of the Bible is spirit. For this reason, everyone who reads this book must approach it with his spirit; it must be read with the spirit. The spirit that we are referring to is the spirit of every regenerated person. We call this spirit the "regenerated spirit." Not everyone has this spirit. Therefore, not everyone can read the Bible well. Only those who have this spirit can read the Bible well; those who do not have this spirit cannot read it well.

The Bible is the word of God. It is full of God's light. Yet this light will only enlighten those who are open to Him.

No matter how clever and well educated a man is, as long as he is not regenerated, this book is a mystery to him. A regenerated person may not be that cultivated, but he is more qualified to read the Bible than an unregenerated college professor.

Only one part within our whole being can study the Bible—our regenerated spirit. If we use any other part of our being to touch the Bible, we are doing something apart from God, and such activity will not touch anything related to Him.

May the Lord show us this basic principle. If we want to read the Bible, understand its teachings, and receive its revelations, we have to bear one responsibility before the Lord: We have to consecrate ourselves absolutely to Him. Only this will give us light through the Bible. Once we have a problem with our consecration, we have a problem with our seeing.

The Bible is an extraordinary book. It includes sixty-six books and is authored by thirty-nine to forty people. The content is extremely rich. To read this book, we must have a plan. Without a plan, we cannot reap great benefit from our reading. From different sources, we have gathered twenty-eight different plans for studying the Scriptures.

In his book The Ministry of God’s Word, Nee says, “Words alone cannot be considered God’s Word.” In this book, Nee becomes very philosophical, mystical and incoherent.

@Ghost-of-a-Duke

The criticism:

One gets the impression from Nee that the Bible was not nearly as important as Christians generally consider it. In his book The Ministry of God’s Word, Nee says, “Words alone cannot be considered God’s Word.” In this book, Nee becomes very philosophical, mystical and incoherent.

He says that only as we deliver the Word in terms of the “reality behind it,” using what he calls “Holy Spirit memory” and “presenting the pictures as well as speaking the words” will the words be correct; otherwise, they are not real.

From an article by G. Richard Fisher. (http://www.apologeticsindex.org)

The work of serving men with God's word is known as the ministry of the word, and the persons who are involved in this service are called ministers of the word. Ministry refers to the work, while minister refers to the person. The ministry of the word occupies a very important place in God's work.

The Bible shows us that the most important work of God on earth is the speaking out of His word. If we remove His word from His work, there is practically nothing left of His work.

We must realize the place that God's word occupies in His work. As soon as we remove His word from His work, the latter ceases. God's work is carried out through His word. In fact, His word is His work. His work is occupied with nothing but His word.

The service of the Lord Jesus was the service of God's word.

The charge is that Watchman Nee gave impression that the Bible is not important to Christians.

This is ludicrous. Here he is speaking of Christ as the Word become flesh. In His ministry the Old Testament is all they had.

. In Him, God's word was released in an entirely different way than it was released through the Old Testament prophets. In the Old Testament God merely used man's voice to deliver His word. Even John the Baptist, the last of the prophets, was merely a voice in the wilderness. God's word was merely conveyed through his voice. But the Lord Jesus was the word itself becoming flesh on earth. In other words, He was the word embodied in the flesh; He was the word becoming a man.

When man's opinion was added to God's word in the Old Testament, the word ceased to be God's word. As soon as human feelings, thoughts, and opinions were added to God's word, it was no longer God's perfect, pure, and unadulterated word.

There is one kind of human thought which, when added to God's word, does not contaminate it but instead completes it. God's word was not hindered by the human element of the Lord Jesus. On the contrary, it was fulfilled through the thoughts of the Lord Jesus. In the Lord Jesus we find God's word reaching a higher level than that which is found in the Old Testament. Matthew 5:21 says, "You have heard that it was said to the ancients..." This was Jehovah's word to Moses. It was Moses' direct inspiration from God. But the Lord Jesus continued in verse 22, "But I say to you..." Here we see the Lord speaking from Himself; He was saying things according to His own thought and opinion. But this speaking did not overturn God's sovereignty; it complemented His sovereignty. It did not overturn God's word; it attained a height that was unreachable in the Old Testament.

Nee arrived at a strange conclusion: “Nose in the Scripture stands for feeling. Smelling is a most delicate act, man’s feeling is most delicate.” Therefore, Nee says, a preacher in speaking needs to “mix feelings with the words spoken, else his words are dead. If our feeling lags behind, our words are stripped of the spirit.” To say as Nee does, on page 210, that the Holy Spirit only rides on feeling is dangerous.

Nee uses terms imprecisely. One example is his writing about a minister’s receiving “revelations” in his “Holy Spirit memory” and those revelations being remembered in us by the Holy Spirit. This sort of metaphysical mumbo jumbo is impossible to understand, since there is no direct scriptural reference to a “Holy Spirit memory.”

Nee outlines no method of Bible study and interpretation and appears to deny evangelical hermeneutics. In his book Spiritual Authority, he sets himself and his elders up as the unquestionable authorities. By all appearances, Nee saw himself not as a servant but as a guru.

Nee’s presuppositions are suspect in light of the Word of God. His books provide grist for cult groups such as The Way, The Alamo Foundation, the Children of God and other groups. The astute believer should watch out for Watchman Nee.


http://www.apologeticsindex.org

@sonship said
@Ghost-of-a-Duke

One gets the impression from Nee that the Bible was not nearly as important as Christians generally consider it.

You are quote mining wildly with no ground to substantiate your wild charges.

The best place to go to find out WHAT Watchman Nee would teach about Christians and the Bible would be on particular treatment of THAT SUBJECT M ...[text shortened]... e


In another post I will demonstrate Nee's high regard for the Bible specifically in that book.

@Ghost-of-a-Duke

Nee outlines no method of Bible study and interpretation and appears to deny evangelical hermeneutics. In his book Spiritual Authority, he sets himself and his elders up as the unquestionable authorities. By all appearances, Nee saw himself not as a servant but as a guru.

CHAPTER FIVE
VARIOUS PLANS FOR STUDYING THE BIBLE

Without a plan, we cannot reap great benefit from our reading. From different sources, we have gathered twenty-eight different plans for studying the Scriptures. If we have time, we can try all of these plans one by one. More elderly brothers may choose only a few.
...

I. MAIN CHARACTERS
There are many characters in the Old Testament, such as Adam, Abel, Noah, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Moses, Joshua, David, and Solomon. We have to study the history of these men carefully. We should learn their history not only from the Old Testament but from the New Testament as well.

...
II. WOMEN
Women occupy a specific line in the Bible. We can study all the women as one category. We can study Eve and find out about her creation, her words, her independent acts, her fall and punishment, and her promise from God to be the mother of all living. We can go on to Sarah, Rebekah, Tamar, Ruth, Rahab, Hannah, Abigail, the Shulamite, etc.

...
III. TYPES
In order to study the types in the Old Testament, we must first have a foundation of the New Testament. The New Testament speaks of Christ, His redemption, the church, and the Holy Spirit. These are four great spiritual things. The chief types in the Old Testament are types of these four things. They either typify Christ, redemption, the church, or the Holy Spirit. In the Old Testament we see the photograph before we see the person. In the New Testament we first see the person, and then we go back to the Old Testament to see the photograph.
...
IV. PROPHECIES
One third of the whole Bible contains prophecies. We can classify the prophecies in the Bible into two categories, those concerning Christ's first coming and those concerning His second coming. Prophecies concerning His first coming can be found in the Pentateuch, the Psalms, and the books of the prophets.
...
VII. GOD'S RELATIONSHIP WITH MAN
Some have classified God's relationship with man in the Bible according to the following considerations: 1) God, 2) men in general, that is, humanity in general, 3) the individual, 4) the God-man, 5) God and man, 6) God in man, and 7) God over men. This is a good division.
...
VIII. CHRONOLOGY
The study of biblical chronology may not reap much immediate benefit. But at least it will help the reader to develop a careful habit in reading the Word. The Bible contains clear records of chronology.
...
X. PARABLES
We can go through all the parables of the Bible. After studying a few of them carefully, we will realize that there are certain principles to interpreting parables. One cannot interpret them in any way he chooses. Once we identify principles, we will know how to interpret other parables when we study them.

@sonship said
@Ghost-of-a-Duke

Nee outlines no method of Bible study and interpretation and appears to deny evangelical hermeneutics. In his book Spiritual Authority, he sets himself and his elders up as the unquestionable authorities. By all appearances, Nee saw himself not as a servant but as a guru.

Selections from How To Study the Bible by Watchman Nee.
[ ...[text shortened]... ) Vol. 54: How to Study the Bible & The Breaking of the Outer Man and the Release of the Spirit [/b]

@Ghost-of-a-Duke

Was the "The Ministry of God's Word" badly written?!

Nee overemphasizes emotions. In The Ministry of God’s Word, he claims that the effectiveness of a preacher’s delivery is a product of his emotions. If a preacher does not feel emotionally charged in delivery, “the Spirit is stuck” and the “Spirit is inevitably arrested,” Nee says. He continues, “The Spirit flows through the channel of emotion.

@sonship said

I would not for a SECOND assume that Watchman Nee was speaking of us doing something in the raw fallen emotions of the natural man.

@Ghost-of-a-Duke

I have no further comment on your critic's problems with this book.

The Ministry of God's Word.