Brazos de Dios

Originally posted by sonhouse
This is all well and good, but it sounds and is elitist. This alleged renewal of the spirit presumably works for Christians but not for say, atheists or Agnostics or Hindu's or Jaynes or aborigines of any country. None of those religions or non-religions talk about a return of Jesus because they are not in that religion. Just like Mormons or Jehovah Witness ...[text shortened]... olly human attribute. It just denigrates whatever a god really is, forcing human traits on it.

Elitist? I don't think so. Christians have a right to form a Christian community, do they not? If you disagree with their particular conception of god, then don't join them. Or if you want to form an atheist community, then you would have the same right.

Originally posted by boonon
I have found that its not worth arguing with people like you, so I will not waste my time. I will say that you are wrong on everything you wrote. You do not understand scripture, nor do you believe it. I would dare say that you don't understand yourself either. If you did you wouldn't preach to everyone on how the world should live and then live exactly the o ...[text shortened]... igate the masses. However I will never deny the gospel and salvation of my Lord Jesus Christ.

You say it is not worth arguing with me, but then you go on arguing with me. I think you know in your heart that your conception of scripture is hopelessly infantile. You would do well to throw off the chains of Mammon and follow the good example of the folk at Brazos de Dios.

Originally posted by checkbaiter
I have heard of groups like you mention, that believe the world must be changed by believers in Christ and usher him in.
This is very flawed. Since the bible clearly states that Satan is the god of this world, it will never happen. In fact, as 2 Timothy claims, men will wax worse and worse.
No, my friend, we follow the leading of Jesus Christ, He will ...[text shortened]... a thief.
NKJV

Rom 16:20
The God of peace will soon crush Satan under your feet
NIV

If you think that all you have to do is sit on the couch and wait, then you will be waiting for all eternity. If men are waxing worse and worse, it is because men like yourself put forward this pernicious doctrine that nothing is required of them than the mouthing of empty platitudes.

Originally posted by checkbaiter
Very nice, but it seems to be missing something. Jesus commanded his followers to go out into all the world and make disciples, not isolate themselves.
Many Christians are tossed about by technology and temptation, etc., but here is where they need to remain strong in the Lord and allow Christ to live through them. They are commanded to be wise as serpe ...[text shortened]... inners not the righteous. Christians are to mingle with the unbelievers, but not sin themselves.

"Very nice, but it seems to be missing something. Jesus commanded his followers to go out into all the world and make disciples, not isolate themselves."

They've got rwingett for that.

Originally posted by JS357
"Very nice, but it seems to be missing something. Jesus commanded his followers to go out into all the world and make disciples, not isolate themselves."

They've got rwingett for that.

Indeed. If they wouldn't harden their hearts, I would be happy to lead them to the Promised Land.

Originally posted by rwingett
If you think that all you have to do is sit on the couch and wait, then you will be waiting for all eternity. If men are waxing worse and worse, it is because men like yourself put forward this pernicious doctrine that nothing is required of them than the mouthing of empty platitudes.

The early Christians of 3000 +, lived in a community sharing and having all things in common, very unlike these 'true' Christians of today:

For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call. And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation. Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.

And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers. And fear came upon every soul: and many wonders and signs were done by the apostles. And all that believed were together, and had all things common; And sold their possessions and goods, and parted them to all men, as every man had need. And they, continuing daily with one accord in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, did eat their meat with gladness and singleness of heart, Praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved. (Act 2:39-47)

Originally posted by sonhouse
This is all well and good, but it sounds and is elitist. This alleged renewal of the spirit presumably works for Christians but not for say, atheists or Agnostics or Hindu's or Jaynes or aborigines of any country. None of those religions or non-religions talk about a return of Jesus because they are not in that religion. Just like Mormons or Jehovah Witness ...[text shortened]... olly human attribute. It just denigrates whatever a god really is, forcing human traits on it.

As an addendum to my previous reply, I would like to emphatically state that I do NOT think that god created all humans and life on earth. I use many of the same terms as mainstream Christians in my Freewheelin' Ministry® sermons, but I do not use them in quite the same way. For example, my conception of god is not that of a creator god at all.

Originally posted by Rajk999
The early Christians of 3000 +, lived in a community sharing and having all things in common, very unlike these 'true' Christians of today:

For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call. And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this u ...[text shortened]... the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved. (Act 2:39-47)

Thank you, brother Rajk999. It's good to see an honest man who can quote scripture without the influence of Mammon twisting his heart.

Originally posted by rwingett
You say it is not worth arguing with me, but then you go on arguing with me. I think you know in your heart that your conception of scripture is hopelessly infantile. You would do well to throw off the chains of Mammon and follow the good example of the folk at Brazos de Dios.

So wrong again. I in no way argued with you about the nonsense that you posted. I pointed out your hypocrisy , which you so predictably side stepped. Do as I say and not as I do.....

Originally posted by rwingett
If you think that all you have to do is sit on the couch and wait, then you will be waiting for all eternity. If men are waxing worse and worse, it is because men like yourself put forward this pernicious doctrine that nothing is required of them than the mouthing of empty platitudes.

I said nothing of sitting and waiting, we have a lot of work to do about which you seem clueless.

Originally posted by boonon
So wrong again. I in no way argued with you about the nonsense that you posted. I pointed out your hypocrisy , which you so predictably side stepped. Do as I say and not as I do.....

Sounds like arguing to me.

Originally posted by checkbaiter
I said nothing of sitting and waiting, we have a lot of work to do about which you seem clueless.

If they do not involve breaking Mammon's chain, then they are less than worthless. You cannot have it both ways. You cannot willfully collaborate with Mammon on a daily basis and then expect to somehow escape Mammon's grasp upon death. The chain you will wear in death will be the same chain you forged in life. You will have made it link by link, and yard by yard. It will be a ponderous chain.

Originally posted by rwingett
If they do not involve breaking Mammon's chain, then they are less than worthless. You cannot have it both ways. You cannot willfully collaborate with Mammon on a daily basis and then expect to somehow escape Mammon's grasp upon death. The chain you will wear in death will be the same chain you forged in life. You will have made it link by link, and yard by yard. It will be a ponderous chain.

The only chain that needs to be broken is the one Satan holds on all of us. For me that chain was broken by Jesus Christ.

Originally posted by boonon
So wrong again. I in no way argued with you about the nonsense that you posted. I pointed out your hypocrisy , which you so predictably side stepped. Do as I say and not as I do.....

I notice you like using the word hypocrisy. There are two meanings for that word:

1. Those who claim to do one thing but dont actually do it ie they lie.
2. Those to preach one thing and do another.

You have to be using the word in the sense of #2 since Rwingett already said that he does not actually live in such an environment. Now if you are totally honest then you would admit that there is nothing wrong with telling people what is right even though you are not able to do it yourself. All religious people are therefore hypocrites by that definition because all should preach that sin and wrong-doing must be avoided and they all fall short of that ideal.

In fact Christ himself condoned the preaching of the truth about sin even if you are unable to live the perfect life yourself:

Matt 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

Simply if you can both DO AND TEACH then you are great in Gods Kingdom. But not all can.

Originally posted by checkbaiter
The only chain that needs to be broken is the one Satan holds on all of us. For me that chain was broken by Jesus Christ.

Jesus provides the motivation (or faith) for you to successfully break that chain yourself (which is works). Some would argue that the former is not necessary, but within a Christian context, they are both necessary. The only chain that Satan hold on you is your self-imposed devotion to Mammon. It is not Satan who binds you thus, but you, yourself, who maintain these bonds by your willful collaboration the forging of them. You want to keep playing the victim by abnegating your responsibility in breaking them.