08 Jan 09
Originally posted by vistesdI have to read this thread properly, but it seems you're in for a roasting 🙂
Something went “click”—and I had to explore it; the language of “pressure” helped—led me to the metaphor of the “crucible of recursive reverberation”. Things were getting clear (to me) as I wrote them. Now I have to let it simmer…
13 Jan 09
Originally posted by vistesdSure thing🙂
As you say, that's what we do. 🙂
Well
My Otz Chiim is a Jacob's ladder complex, a tree and then a tree and then a tree and then a tree; each tree belongs to each world, and each tree has its mirror image too;
from ein soph aur emanated the first qeter and the flash went all the way to malkut
which is the qeter of the next tree
and then comes the third tree likewise
and then comes the forth;
as the first world blows derives the second
and then from the second within the first derives the third,
and then from the third within the second within the first derives the forth
all of them worlds are radiating the next ad infinitum into the Void
from which they derived;
Nothing Holy😵
13 Jan 09
1 edit
Originally posted by black beetleYes, I haven’t spent a lot of time with the Jacob's Ladder yet. It is a natural expansion: I see it almost as a trombone slide. 😉
Sure thing🙂
Well
My Otz Chiim is a Jacob's ladder complex, a tree and then a tree and then a tree and then a tree; each tree belongs to each world, and each tree has its mirror image too;
from ein soph aur emanated the first qeter and the flash went all the way to malkut
which is the qeter of the next tree
and then comes the third tree likewise ...[text shortened]... s are radiating the next ad infinitum into the Void
from which they derived;
Nothing Holy😵
I am still working with the simpler model, with one tree spanning all four worlds. I am taking my time, trying to get deeper into each of the middle six sefirot—and a richer sense of the flow. Especially, I am focusing now on the lower triad of netzach-yesod-hod.
Also, I am imagining an expansion that is not strictly linear. For example, I think there is a model where the sitra achra besomes its own tree in an expansion from gevurah/din. But I’m wondering about a more fractal-like model… I might sit down and play with various possibilities for expansion—sort of like Abalufia permuting letters as a meditational method…
I am also wondering if—and this is my own “creation”—yesod, rather than malchut, shouldn’t be thought of as the keter for the next tree, rather than the traditional malchut… Yesod is the explosive power-center (why I associate with the hara in that way of looking at it, the hara of the tree, of each tree).
Just playing with that possibility… I do need to explore more of the Jacob’s Ladder more, first…
I am seeing this process like the saying: One must bring one’s own torah to the [written] torah, and out of that engagement, new, real Torah is generated. (I forget both the source and the exact wording of the original.) I am bringing my own Kabbalah creatively to the traditional Kabbalah… (Hmmm… A bit like bringing chesed to gevurah, and trying to find the harmonizing balance of tiferet, in order keep it flowing…?)
This is a rambling post! Am I making any sense?
13 Jan 09
Originally posted by black beetleall of them worlds are radiating the next ad infinitum into the Void
Sure thing🙂
Well
My Otz Chiim is a Jacob's ladder complex, a tree and then a tree and then a tree and then a tree; each tree belongs to each world, and each tree has its mirror image too;
from ein soph aur emanated the first qeter and the flash went all the way to malkut
which is the qeter of the next tree
and then comes the third tree likewise ...[text shortened]... s are radiating the next ad infinitum into the Void
from which they derived;
Nothing Holy😵
from which they derived;
Yes! I like that!
I am moving slowly because—ben Zoma went mad! 😉
13 Jan 09
Originally posted by vistesdYou do make sense!
Yes, I haven’t spent a lot of time with the Jacob's Ladder yet. It is a natural expansion: I see it almost as a trombone slide. 😉
I am still working with the simpler model, with one tree spanning all four worlds. I am taking my time, trying to get deeper into each of the middle six sefirot—and a richer sense of the flow. Especially, I am focusing ...[text shortened]... nce of tiferet, in order keep it flowing…?)
This is a rambling post! Am I making any sense?
But this Jacob's ladder I mentioned expands like the Tibethan Kosmos you remember from your previous bardo, it is not "linear". Once one estimates that it is linear, he gets stranded and he cannot follow his light
now you will see it clearly
you can go back to Your basic tree and have it full, with its mirror image;
notice the spheres on it and the Ways connecting each other;
then have the whole ladder "linear" as normally, consisting of the four trees of Yours each one with its mirror image
and now see that the seemingly linear whole length of the ladder Is the diameter of that Kosmos -its length is so big that the whole curve becomes a straight line actually; or, you may see the whole curve of the ladder as a straight line that runs through the diameter of Kosmos, starting and ending at the same dimentional point;
Am I making any sense?
13 Jan 09
Edit:
"I am also wondering if—and this is my own “creation”—yesod, rather than malchut, shouldn’t be thought of as the keter for the next tree, rather than the traditional malchut… Yesod is the explosive power-center (why I associate with the hara in that way of looking at it, the hara of the tree, of each tree)."
yesod purifies the emanations and passes them to malkut; yesod accepted the emanations of Tihparet and through Tipharet the emanations of qeter; and since it took from the beautiful naked woman and from the eighth way whatever they had accepted from their pillars, it is really the receiver of the emanations; so it is my knowledge that yesod sends the pressure to malkut;
13 Jan 09
Originally posted by black beetleSo, the “trombone slide” linear model is really like mapping a multi-dimensional world onto a two-dimensional surface?
You do make sense!
But this Jacob's ladder I mentioned expands like the Tibethan Kosmos you remember from your previous bardo, it is not "linear". Once one estimates that it is linear, he gets stranded and he cannot follow his light
now you will see it clearly
you can go back to Your basic tree and have it full, with its mirror image;
notice the ...[text shortened]... ter of Kosmos, starting and ending at the same dimentional point;
Am I making any sense?
But, since most of the traditional models are mapped linearly, people—even if they realize it is just a simplification—tend to fall into the trap of applying linear analysis to it?
you can go back to Your basic tree and have it full, with its mirror image
So, as long as one is aware of the simplification, one can—in effect—“fold” Jacob’s Ladder in such a way that all four worlds can be seen, enfolded as it were, in a single tree?
13 Jan 09
Originally posted by vistesdYes, because they fall into the trap set by the thief of the vision
So, the “trombone slide” linear model is really like mapping a multi-dimensional world onto a two-dimensional surface?
But, since most of the traditional models are mapped linearly, people—even if they realize it is just a simplification—tend to fall into the trap of applying linear analysis to it?
[b]you can go back to Your basic tree and have it ...[text shortened]... ’s Ladder in such a way that all four worlds can be seen, enfolded as it were, in a single tree?
Yes; for the ladder is not itself a system of knowledge but a method of evaluation of the mind
13 Jan 09
Originally posted by black beetleBut, is not malchut formed by the sending (emanation) of that pressure? That is, just as binah was not pre-existent to the emanation from hochmah, malchut is not pre-existent to the emanation from yesod.
Edit:
"I am also wondering if—and this is my own “creation”—yesod, rather than malchut, shouldn’t be thought of as the keter for the next tree, rather than the traditional malchut… Yesod is the explosive power-center (why I associate with the hara in that way of looking at it, the hara of the tree, of each tree)."
yesod purifies the emanations and p ...[text shortened]... the receiver of the emanations; so it is my knowledge that yesod sends the pressure to malkut;
The emanations are not condensed into a single path—that of the central stem/pillar. That is where the tension is harmonized. But the pressure proceeds, not just from tiferit, say, directly to yesod, but through netzach and hod as well. Yesod is the “final” harmonizing crucible from which the pressure either generates malchut—or the whole thing would disintegrate, explode…
Okay, I agree: malchut is the new keter, from which the iterative process begins again. Otherwise the model ends with malchut being in some kind of non-generative stasis—in which the pressure would build until, again, a disintegrative explosion. So, the iterative flow begins again. Each malchut/keter is also continually re-generated by the flow, even as it continues the process…
Each malchut is not just a continuation of the channeling, but an expansion...
13 Jan 09
Originally posted by black beetle[/b]Yes; for the ladder is not itself a system of knowledge but a method of evaluation of the mind
Yes, because they fall into the trap set by the thief of the vision
Yes; for the ladder is not itself a system of knowledge but a method of evaluation of the mind
Again, it is too easy to fall into the trap of forgetting that!
A grammar for deciphering the syntax of the cosmos, a grammar which nonetheless derives from that larger syntax. A hermeneutic.
And that hermeneutic—like midrashic and post-structuralist readings of the text—cannot be frozen or fixed, but must allow the play of opposites to move creatively forward. The harmonizing of tiferet allows that play to move forward without disintegration, and without stifling it.
(Almost everything I say on this thread should be taken as a question, not a conclusion! 😉 )
14 Jan 09
Originally posted by vistesdMy knowledge is that, this way, yesod is misunderstood
But, is not malchut formed by the sending (emanation) of that pressure? That is, just as binah was not pre-existent to the emanation from hochmah, malchut is not pre-existent to the emanation from yesod.
The emanations are not condensed into a single path—that of the central stem/pillar. That is where the tension is harmonized. But the pressure proceed ...[text shortened]... s the process…
Each malchut is not just a continuation of the channeling, but an expansion...
The second triangle could be named Ethical Triangle, and the third triangle Magical Triangle; to qeter belongs the sphere of the three-in-one, to Tipharet belongs the sphere of the son, and to yesod belongs the sphere of the spirit; this seems to my mind correct;
But there are readings under the bias of the Christian religion, which they attribute the christian trinity to the three heavenly sephiroth; this false interpretation leads to many contradictions, but hopefully all of these mindfull thoughts can be rejected by the Clear Mind once the correct attribution is established;
Some other interpretators, under the bias of cosmic Judaism, concluded that "god" is a creator/ personage who "created" the sea and the land and the animals and the Human and all, and then the people remained with the impression that "god" undertook perfect constructions and when he finished his perfect creations he put them at their perfect places in his perfect cosmos; this is a delusion;
The basic tree is four-dimentional; the pressure flows as you already know; assiya is not merely the World of the Human, but a lower astral/ aitheral level too which is needed for the emanation of the material/ physical formations; assiyan yesod is not mu, it is the vision of the mechanism of cosmos; after yesod you enter malkut; and then all this pressure concentrated within malkut goes to the place you know it goes;
Expansion😵
14 Jan 09
Originally posted by vistesdIt is too easy to fall into the trap but it is even easier to understand that you are trapped: too many contradictions enable you to see you are walking in a minefield;
Yes; for the ladder is not itself a system of knowledge but a method of evaluation of the mind
Again, it is too easy to fall into the trap of forgetting that!
A grammar for deciphering the syntax of the cosmos, a grammar which nonetheless derives from that larger syntax. A hermeneutic.
And that hermeneutic—like midrashic and post-struc ...[text shortened]...
(Almost everything I say on this thread should be taken as a question, not a conclusion! 😉 )[/b]
Whatever you simply understand not because you cannot answer "because", is ok. For there is not Because. Whatever makes no sense because it is contradictory through a multileveled cross-check, is a trap. But keep in mind that this is what my mind tells to your mind 😵