Calling Out Jesus in Rev.

The Trinty is not biblical.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=93giRf74gjI

@Ghost-of-a-Duke

It produces confusion rather than clarification; and while the problems with which it deals are real ones, the solutions it offers are not illuminating.

The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit be with you all." (1 Cor. 13:14)

@Ghost-of-a-Duke

Ah, the Atheist complains of the unscripturalness of the Triune God.

The atheist hiding behind the coattail of the anti-trinitarian theist. He's "concerned" you see? ... for the biblical teaching of these things.

Meanwhile "And the Word was with God, and the Word was God" (See John 1:1)

@ghost-of-a-duke said
Cyril Richardson, professor of church history at New York’s Union Theological Seminary, though a dedicated Trinitarian himself, said this in his book The Doctrine of The Trinity:

“My conclusion, then, about the doctrine of the Trinity is that it is an artificial construct . . . It produces confusion rather than clarification; and while the problems with which it de ...[text shortened]... ity as a ‘revealed’ doctrine, is really an evasion of the objections that can be brought against it”

We need to know about the three-one God because it is important to growth spiritually for many.

For example, the New Testament says that the Son intercedes to the Father on our behalf. If you don't believe it you suffer. If you believe it you are all the better.

But the Son interceding at the right hand of God is also the Son INDWELLING the Christians. How can Jesus be in two places ?

The answer is the Trinity.
The answer is the mysterious yet practical Triune God.

Christ is at the right hand of God interceding for me. (Romans 8:34). Christ is also living in my innermost spirit (Romans 8:9-11) .

But some atheist warns "Don't talk about that Trinity thing."

I'd rather derive the blessing and help from what Romans says. I need all the help I can get - Son - Father - Holy Spirit, Son living in me, Son interceding for me to the Father, SPirit interceding for me, groaning in me, Spirit living in me. He who raised Jesus from the dead living in me, etc. etc.

I'll take ALL the help the Bible offers me.

@Ghost-of-a-Duke

He also admitted, “Much of the defense of the Trinity as a ‘revealed’ doctrine, is really an evasion of the objections that can be brought against it”

In these days people have spread rumors that our teaching concerning the Trinity is heretical. We want to let people know that we believe in the Trinity according to the pure Word of God. This message is intended to be not only a declaration to the critics, but also a help to the dear saints in the local churches, that all may know what we believe according to the Scriptures regarding the matter of the Triune God.

This matter of the Trinity has been a subject of great argument and strong disputation among Christians ever since the second century. During the last eighteen or nineteen centuries, the argument has never ceased. It has been utilized by the enemy to destroy the unity of the saints. Do not get caught in the snare of endless debate. We must come back from the traditional terms, sayings, and teachings to the pure Word of God. The controversy concerning such a mystery as the Trinity is endless. Be on the alert to avoid this trap. My burden in this message is to fellowship with you regarding this mystery from the pure Word.

@kellyjay said
Such as?

YouTube

@ghost-of-a-duke said
Please refer to the link I provided on the previous page.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=93giRf74gjI

@Ghost-of-a-Duke

The video starts like this: "According to Christianity God is ... of three separate beings ..."

Hmmm. Do I believe in a God as "three separate beings" ? No.

Then I must not be a part of Christianity Ghost because I don't believe the Three are SEPARATED.
Should I go on?

The Word was with God and the Word was God means to me distinction but not separation.

Should I go on to get "help" from your video about what according to Christianity my God is ?
It didn't get off to the best start.

What else does your expert have to help me?

@secondson said
Erroneous exegesis throughout.

Then he goes into "according to Christianity" and points to First John 5:7.

Well there is no monolithic reference to First John 5:7 to prove the Trinity.
Perhaps some Christians used it.
Does that mean we all had to follow that questionable passage?

Okay, in the past several centuries SOMEONE or maybe a few laid hold on First John 5:7.
It doesn't mean all the Christians thought that is where we should go to talk about the nature of God.

Is it OK with your expert if some of the brothers say "That's probably not the best passage to use in examining the relationship of Father - Son - Holy Spirit" ? There is no Christian public wide universal Church appeal to First John 5:7 concerning the Trinity.

What else does your expert have to give me a hand here?

@kellyjay said
Such as?

What does Jesus say about God?
And one of the scribes came, and having heard them reasoning together, and perceiving that he (Jesus) had answered them well, asked him, Which is the first commandment of all? And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord: Mark 12:28-29

So Jesus believes and supports the statement made in the old testament that God is one being.

The popular belief that God, is three beings in one (the Father, the son and the Holy spirit) is nowhere found in the scriptures. Consider Christs own words:

“I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me.” John 5:30

Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I. John 14:28

So is this a third part of almighty God speaking as some suggest? If so, Jesus was in subjection to the other third of his supposed being – “God the father”. If the view of the trinity is true then each third must have a ranking system. God the Father at the top and the others somewhere underneath him – but remember that the suggestion is that they are all one person according to the argument of the Trinity, so it is impossible for one being to have parts of it which are of higher authority than other parts of it. Consider this verse:

Father, if thou be willing, remove this cup from me: nevertheless not my will, but thine, be done. Luke 22:42

Jesus was in complete subjection to the fathers will, but he had a will of his own. This clearly shows that they were not one person but two completely different beings, having their own wills.

Another point we could bring out is that the Bible teaches that God knew things that Jesus didn’t – this of course would be an impossibility if they were the same being:

But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father. Mark 13:32

(Same source as above).

What did the early Christians believe?
For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; 1Timothy 2:5

But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him. 1 Corinthians 8v6

Notice how the apostle Paul believes that there is one God and one Lord Jesus. They are two different beings – not part of a trinity. Again we could mention here that the word “trinity” is nowhere to be found in the Bible but mainstream Christianity holds it up as a core doctrine.

(Same source as above).

Where does the belief in the trinity come from?
We have seen how that, throughout the Bible God is only described as being one being. We have seen how that Jesus and the early followers of Christ also believed this and clearly taught it. So where and how has this view of the trinity come from?

Our history books show us that the belief comes from a creed called the Athinasian creed. It was published and imposed in the forth century after Christ died, about 300 years after Jesus walked the earth. The Romans used this creed when they changed from being Pagans to so called Christians and this Creed is still used in Churches around us today and is the basis of The Roman Catholic faith and the basis of the other faiths who have split from the Catholics. Here is a quote from it:

“The Catholic faith is this, that we worship one God in Trinity and Trinity in Unity. Neither confounding the Persons, nor dividing the substance. For there is one person of the father another of the son and another of the holy ghost. But the Godhead of the father, of the son and of the holy ghost is all one, the glory equal the majesty co-eternal.”

Now we notice that none of this is backed up by scripture, the true word of God. Surly any true follower of God would have written in the relevant passages so that everyone could understand and know why this creed had to be obeyed. But there is not one.

(Same source as above).