29 Nov 18
@sonship saidYour threats of stupendously demented magical violence are meaningless to me sonship. I'm not going to waste a single moment going back to the times over the last decade when you got upset and expressed the silly threats in a visceral and personal way ~ kind of like when you are in your "you're eating faeces" or "you're a stinky leper" mode, you know? When you're really mainlining "Jesus". If you say you never did that, good for you, just go ahead and have faith in yourself. And anyway, they were the times when you went embarrassingly beyond parody. The whole torturer god figure ideology - even when it's dry and pseudo-intellectual - is not credible. So I "don't care" about your superstitious threats and warnings. But this doesn't mean I am "apathetic" about debating the moral black hole that your religiosity has placed in your heart.
@FMF
The only thing I "don't care about" is the implementation of your torturer god ideology.
Noted - No Quotation, Exaggerator.
You're moving back from the personal tone, aren't you?
Like I personally threatened FMF with torture.
Are you for emptying the prisons of Indonesia on the grounds that everyone incarcerated there is being tortured ? ...[text shortened]... physical and emotional suffering, should all these tortured prisoners be RELEASED because of this ?
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So folks we have FMF giving the impression that I personally threatened him with torture with the aid of God after he dies.
He backs off a bit and says I have a torturer God ideology.
He's welcomed to that view. Maybe all punishment to him is evil torture.
Every criminal being punished probably thinks his punishment is torture.
If there is a greatest possible goodness it is logical that in a creation of bengs with free wills, there could be also a greatest transgression, greatest offense, greatest wrong doing.
You have decide if NO consequences is justice for this or justice meted out.
Does FMF believe God will TORTURE those who do not want anything to do with God to FORCE them to be in His kingdom and glory?
Does he think God who gives them their choice will torturously drag them into His realm of love, light, and righteousness when what they have loved is hatred, darkness, and unrighteousness ?
Does FMF prefer a God dragging ideology of the perfect Goodness forcing sinners to endure His love which they have rejected with disgust.
IF His will will not be done, He will let THEIR will be done.
It is not monsterous of God to forewarn us that that existence will not be the happy one that we imagined a Godless realm should be.
And if their blasphemies grow more and more in eternity, apparently they will be matched by God letting them know and feel just what He thinks of their everlasting rebellion.
29 Nov 18
@sonship saidStart a thread about it. This seems to be testy mention-Indonesia babble, which I've seen before when your feathers are ruffled. Calm down; figure out what you have to say or ask; forget it if it was just lashing out; and start a thread about it if you have an interesting question to ask about Indonesia.
Are you for emptying the prisons of Indonesia on the grounds that everyone incarcerated there is being tortured ?
@sonship saidYou're the biggest, most vociferous and most incessant proponent of supernatural torture for people whose religious beliefs are different from yours. You make these threats and issue these "warnings" in comments addressed to me and assert that they are the consequence of beliefs I have described to you. Torture lies at the very heart of your religious zealotry. It defines your god figure. It oozes out of many of your comments and threads. It seems to be the de facto basis of your spiritual mindmap.
So folks we have FMF giving the impression that I personally threatened him with torture with the aid of God after he dies.
@sonship saidAll these threats of vengeful torture mean nothing to me sonship. I "don't care" about your threats. What is interesting, however, is that you are not making any moral argument about it. You are waffling indignatiously, but all you're really saying is kind of Might is Right, and My God is Going to Torture You Because He Just IS.
So folks we have FMF giving the impression that I personally threatened him with torture with the aid of God after he dies.
He backs off a bit and says I have a torturer God ideology.
He's welcomed to that view. Maybe all punishment to him is evil torture.
Every criminal being punished probably thinks his punishment is torture.
If there is a greatest possible goo ...[text shortened]... ill be matched by God letting them know and feel just what He thinks of their everlasting rebellion.
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Your threats of stupendously demented magical violence are meaningless to me sonship.
No answer to the question yet, noted.
I'm not going to waste a single moment going back to the times over the last decade when you got upset and expressed the silly threats in a visceral and personal way
No answer to the question yet, noted.
~ kind of like when you are in your "you're eating faeces" or "you're a stinky leper" mode, you know?
NO answer to the question yet, noted.
When you're really mainlining "Jesus". If you say you never did that, good for you, just go ahead and have faith in yourself.
NO answer to the question yet still, noted.
And anyway, they were the times when you went embarrassingly beyond parody.
Still no answer to the question yet, noted.
The whole torturer god figure ideology - even when it's dry and pseudo-intellectual - is not credible.
No answer to the question STILL , NOTED.
So I "don't care" about your superstitious threats and warnings.
Still no answer to the question, noted.
But this doesn't mean I am "apathetic" about debating the moral black hole that your religiosity has placed in your heart.
No answer noted. I asked him if all the prisoners in Indonesia should be released from prison on account of their feeling that they are being tortured.
(Not is human justice perfect in Indonesia perfect)
I am sure criminals would say the treatment they undergo is torture to them. So why not release all of Indonesia's tortured criminals from jail?
FMF dodged.
@sonship saidI don't have a god figure like you do. I don't have a god figure ideology like you do. I am not confronting you about a god or gods or your God. I am confronting you about the ideology you espouse and its moral implications. I am not going to conjure up some alternative god or gods and let it or them duke it out with yours. I am an agnostic atheist, sonship. Your threats of demented vengeful cruelty meted out - supernaturally - for thoughtcrimes are meaningless and your "moral" justifications amount to little more than you reiterating and restating your certainty over and over again.
Does FMF believe God will TORTURE those who do not want anything to do with God to FORCE them to be in His kingdom and glory?
Does he think God who gives them their choice will torturously drag them into His realm of love, light, and righteousness when what they have loved is hatred, darkness, and unrighteousness ?
Does FMF prefer a God dragging ideology of the perfect Goodness forcing sinners to endure His love which they have rejected with disgust.
@sonship saidIn some relatively rare cases they are tortured, or so I hear ~ being abused by fellow inmates is a bigger issue prisoners have to face.
I asked him if all the prisoners in Indonesia should be released from prison on account of their feeling that they are being tortured.
Getting sent to an Indonesian gaol is a very real thing. Doing time and getting released is a very real thing. I have no reason to believe the Lake of Fire is a real thing and that a man who died 2,000 years ago will be watching non-Christians get burned in a furnace for eternity after I die.
Your analogy is a dud.
But start a thread about crime and punishment in Indonesia if you want to. If you think the depravity, corruption and often times inhumanity of Indonesian gaols helps you make a case about the nature of your God, make it on that thread.
@sonship saidPeople are sent to prison for terms of incarceration in accordance with the law. They range from a few months to life imprisonment. Some people are executed. If they feel they are mistreated, they can go through their lawyers but I'd think it pretty futile. Any torture that goes on would not be in accordance with Indonesia's international legal obligations. Start a thread about it if your interest is genuine.
I asked him if all the prisoners in Indonesia should be released from prison on account of their feeling that they are being tortured.
@sonship saidAccording to your beliefs, are the words "Trinity" and "Triune God" divinely inspired?
@SecondSon
Understand that to FMF it doesn't matter. Don't be surprised if he eventually tells you down the line that it doesn't matter to him anyway.
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29 Nov 18
@kellyjay saidThe God presented in the OT is not the same God presented in the NT. You have not convinced me this is not the case.
Forgive me, but you think there is a god for the OT, and a different god for the NT.
Now you want to correct me and others on the doctrine of the Trinity. You didn't
defend your first assertion about dual gods of the OT and NT when we started
talking about it. Outside of stating your position as if that were enough you didn't
stick around to see that discussion through. ...[text shortened]... ne that
Christianity would have you believe X but its not true isn't a compelling argument
either.
The Trinty is not only a concept not unique to the Bible, it isn't even mentioned in the Bible and was not something the apostles or early church believed. Do you dispute this? If so, state your case.
29 Nov 18
@kellyjay saidTrinitarians capitalise the T of the word trinity as though this somehow lends it an authority and authenticity which it simply does not have. The word triune isn’t in the bible either.
There are a lot of words not in the Bible, chess, cars, airplanes, trucks, and so on.
Translations from one language to the next use all types of words to work out
various meanings across divers people's. Sometimes they use words that in later
years wouldn't be used due to time and alterations of each language. We don't
speak in King James English anymore or at least mos ...[text shortened]...
Romans 5:8
but God shows his love for us in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us.
The ideas of god being three distinct people is not scriptural, in fact the concepts of pantheism is of pagan origins. do is ONE. Trying to turn God into THREE in order to fit your misunderstanding of the nature of God’s temporary physical and spiritual manifestations along with his eternal personage has led you to accept error.
Capitalising the words of your error does not make them holy.
29 Nov 18
@secondson saidNo, isn’t “clear” at all. It it was “clear” then we wouldn’t be here debating it would we.
Obviously the word is lost on you.
The scriptures are clear. God is revealed in scripture as three distinct personalities in one.
It's as simple as that.
Furthermore, if you have not been TAUGHT the words “trinity” and the concept of God having a split personality, you would not be propagating it here today. I guarantee it.