Calling out Jorge Borges

Originally posted by Nemesio
So, you suppose if he appeared in His Glory in front of the army of the Amalekites, with thunderbolts,
fire, and flood and the whole shebang, you don't think He could have compelled the them to
live righteous lives? Slaughter was the only option?

Nemesio

I don't think it is accurate to assume that a mere display of God's power will induce the prideful and rebellious heart of man to repentance. Some people are just rotten. Christ healed people right in front of the Pharisee's eyes, yet they conspired to destroy Him. The Israelites themselves witnessed the parting of the Red Sea, yet trash talked Moses and thumbed their noses at God in the wilderness. In the book of Revelations the whole world witnesses the awful majesty of God's power unleashed against them, yet the hearts of many remained steadfast against Him to the bitter end. We underestimate the prideful resolve of the rebellious heart. Further, the Amalekites weren't unfamiliar with the reality of Jehovah the way modern day atheists are; these weren't folks who didn't know any better. They knew God was real, and they knew His laws and still delighted in transgressing them; they engaged in sex with animals, child sacrifice, their cities contained temples full of harlots, idolatry, demon-worship, etc. A display of God's power doesn't guarantee anything. As far as options go, I don't think there could have been any easy ones.

Originally posted by twhitehead
In what way is slaughtering someone or even sending someone else to slaughter them not a violation of free will?

Free will does not entail freedom from judgment.

Originally posted by Jorge Borges
I don't think it is accurate to assume that a mere display of God's power will induce the prideful and rebellious heart of man to repentance. Some people are just rotten. Christ healed people right in front of the Pharisee's eyes, yet they conspired to destroy Him. The Israelites themselves witnessed the parting of the Red Sea, yet trash talked Moses ...[text shortened]... guarantee anything. As far as options go, I don't think there could be any easy ones.

Utter lunacy.

Originally posted by rwingett
The price you pay for supposedly giving people free will is that they just might opt to disobey. If Pharaoh lets the Israelites go, or makes them stay, he is exercising his own free will. At least he was, until god hardened his heart and sealed the deal.

If you don't want people to disobey, then don't give them free will. If you give them free will then ...[text shortened]... m for exercising the free will you supposedly gave them is madness. Your god is a psychopath.

To punish them for exercising the free will you supposedly gave them is madness. Your god is a psychopath.

God does not punish people for exercising free will. The exercising of one's free will can take on many forms: deciding to buy a green car instead of a red one; buying a Mac instead of a PC; spontaneously deciding to dance down the street naked; wiggling your thumb instead of your fore-finger, etc. There are many exhilarating benefits of possessing free will which have nothing to do with morality; self-expression being one of them.

God made human beings in His image, possessing free will; and because He is a God of love, He respects and protects our free will. Even if we use our free will to engage in sinful practices and refuse His proper lordship over our lives, He will not violate our free will. The best He can do is send His Son to suffer and die on our behalf, to show the great love which He has for us. In Christ we know God as not only our Lord, but also as our Friend (our equal).

This is not madness. Having the gift of free will is, in my opinion, endlessly rewarding. Without free will there is no creativity. And neither is it madness that God judges. It is perfectly sane to judge unrepentant people for their offenses. It is also perfectly sane to offer a way out of judgment. Charles Manson is a psychopath; Jesus Christ is not.

Originally posted by DoctorScribbles
Utter lunacy.

Anything more to add?

Originally posted by Jorge Borges
[b]To punish them for exercising the free will you supposedly gave them is madness. Your god is a psychopath.

God does not punish people for exercising free will. The exercising of one's free will can take on many forms: deciding to buy a green car instead of a red one; buying a Mac instead of a PC; spontaneously deciding to dance down th ...[text shortened]... ctly sane to offer a way out of judgment. Charles Manson is a psychopath; Jesus Christ is not.[/b]

Utter lunacy.

Originally posted by rwingett
Utter lunacy.

Anything more to add?

Originally posted by Jorge Borges
Anything more to add?

No. Talking to you is pointless.

Originally posted by Jorge Borges
God lawfully has the right to execute judgment upon anyone. The Bible says that all people have sinned against God and are under his righteous judgment. Therefore, their execution is not an arbitrary killing nor is it murder. Murder is the unlawful taking of life. Killing is the lawful taking of life. For example, we can lawfully take a life in defe ...[text shortened]... ation were it available. Should the former be able to steal that opportunity from the latter?

Is it possible to sin so big and so often that you are no longer eligible to become saved? It seems to me this is what you are saying happened to the Amalekites...and, inexplicably, their animals...

Can modern day people sin so much and so big that even if they say the magic words (or whatever the fashionable thing to do is these days to become a Christian) God will simply reject them on account of their past deeds being so bad?

Originally posted by rwingett
No. Talking to you is pointless.

It really, really is. I mean, I've seen a lot of idiots in here over the years --- a lot --- and this guy stands tall among them as though he were Goliath.

Originally posted by rwingett
No. Talking to you is pointless.

Why is it pointless?

Originally posted by TheSkipper
Is it possible to sin so big and so often that you are no longer eligible to become saved? It seems to me this is what you are saying happened to the Amalekites...and, inexplicably, their animals...

Don't forget the children, despite Jorge's own claim in the Lint thread that "children aren't capable of making responsible choices."

Originally posted by Jorge Borges
Why is it pointless?

You have no interest in anything I say, and I have no interest in anything you say. It's a pointless discussion.

Originally posted by DoctorScribbles
Don't forget the children, despite Jorge's own claim in the Lint thread that "children aren't capable of making responsible choices."

Oh! Good point.

Originally posted by DoctorScribbles
It really, really is. I mean, I've seen a lot of idiots in here over the years --- a lot --- and this guy stands tall among them as though he were Goliath.

Ad hominem, and Poisoning the Well. Unimpressive.