Spirituality
22 Nov 18
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John 12
46 “I have come as Light into the world, so that everyone who believes in Me will not remain in darkness.
50 “I know that His commandment is eternal life; therefore the things I speak, I speak just as the Father has told Me.”
48 “He who rejects Me and does not receive My sayings, has one who judges him; the word I spoke is what will judge him at the last day.
ThhinkOfOne, you utterly oppose and fight against the ministry of Jesus while He walked the earth. You are in denial about your opposition to Jesus.
Another point: You are so obsessed with your logic that when shown your opposition to Christ's ministry while on the earth, you reason that a "reading comprehension" problem exists with those who can see through your opposition.
Another point: Your problem with Paul is actually your problem with Jesus Christ's ministry. There is hardly a finer example of a person who wholeheartedly seized upon Jesus and what He taught and pioneered in the experience of it as the Apostle Paul.
Your theory that Paul corrupted the message of Jesus is actually your opposition TO Jesus' ministry.
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ThinkOfOne cont.
Now to your paragraph specifically. And I anticipate that when I show you the problem you may react with condescending advice about my reading comprehension.
Yes, in John 12 Jesus warns that the word He has spoken will be the judge of those in the audience. But what do those words INCLUDE ?
They include that the last judgment of mankind will be conducted BY Jesus Himself. And this is by the design of His Father:
For as the Father raises the dead and gives them life, so also the Son gives life to whom He wills.
For the Father does not judge anyone, but He has given all judgment to the Son, in order that all may honor the Son even as they honor the Father. He who does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent Him." (John 5:22,23)
So when the word of Jesus judges at the final judgment, those words indicate that your eternal destiny will be the deciding judgment of the Man Jesus, not in the abstract, but in actuality
That it is in actuality the Man Jesus Who will judge is absolutely sealed in the following words in the same chapter.
"And He [the Father] gave Him [the Son] to execute judgment, because He is the Son of Man. (v.27)
Do not marvel at this, for an hour is coming which all who are in the tombs shall hear His voice, (v.28)
And shall come forth, those who have done the good to the resurrection of life, and those who have done the evil to the resurrection of judgment." (v.29)
This is not just the words of Jesus while He walked the earth being our judge in an existential sense. This is people coming forth out of the graves and tombs in resurrection to come before this "Son of Man" Who is the Son of God, to be judged.
And His judgment is absolutely just, righteous and without error:
I can do nothing from Myself; as I hear, I judge; and My judgment is just, because I do not seek My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me." (v.30) [/b]
Lastly, when the Apostles Peter and Paul teach us that Jesus Christ will be the judge of the living and the dead (Acts 10:42; 17:31; Rom. 2:16; 2 Tim. 4:1) they are were adding anything of their own opinion. They were faithfully passing on what Jesus had taught.
22 Jan 19
@thinkofone saidYou pretending to be a broken record that keeps skipping and repeating yourself?
When I asserted that the words Jesus spoke when preaching His gospel while He walked the Earth have "meaning AND power" in and of themselves, you rejected it.
When I asserted that Jesus explained why his words are "worthy to be listened to", you rejected it.
You've also rejected all passages I cited wherein Jesus explained the importance of His words.
In short, ...[text shortened]... you reject the gospel preached by Jesus while He walked the Earth.
No sense pretending otherwise
Show a little life, you are quoting scripture, tell us about Jesus and the Father who
are they, or do you believe the proper question would be who they were?
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22 Jan 19
@kellyjay saidHe rejects that part (or at least pretends he hasn't seen it).
Jesus I have no issue with, its you I do.
Who was Jesus' Father that told Him what to say?
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22 Jan 19
@sonship saidHow is referencing something you have stated considered a lie?!
@divegeester
How are those aliens on other planets doing?
Still a liar with a seared conscience, I see.
22 Jan 19
@ghost-of-a-duke saidLike a grotty vain politician, sonship has stated BOTH that he believes non believers are hung out burning on chains as a warning to people on other planets [ it wasn't his idea, he plagiarized it ] AND he has stated that he doesn't think people on other planets exist. sonship could be a clerk for Rudi Giuliani.
How is referencing something you have stated considered a lie?!
@sonship saidYet when everything is said and done in John 12, Jesus clearly and unambiguously declared that:
ThinkOfOne cont.
Now to your paragraph specifically. And I anticipate that when I show you the problem you may react with condescending advice about my reading comprehension.
Yes, in John 12 Jesus warns that the word He has spoken will be the judge of those in the audience. But what do those words INCLUDE ?
They include that the last judgment of mankind wi ...[text shortened]... re were adding anything of their own opinion. They were faithfully passing on what Jesus had taught.
" the word I spoke is what will judge him at the last day."
Note that it's the words Jesus "spoke" that "will judge". Note that "spoke" is past tense. Not the words that the NT writers would have one believe Jesus "spoke" after the resurrection. Not the words that Paul and the other NT writers later "spoke".
Let's see what jaywill either omitted or glossed over.
John 5
24“Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.
25“Truly, truly, I say to you, an hour is coming and now is, when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God, and those who hear will live.
28“Do not marvel at this; for an hour is coming, in which all who are in the tombs will hear His voice, 29and will come forth; those who did the good deeds to a resurrection of life, those who committed the evil deeds to a resurrection of judgment.
Ultimately:
1) Those who "did the good deeds" will come forth to "resurrection of life".
2) Those who "committed the evil deeds" will come forth to a " resurrection of judgment".
Jesus later elaborated on this concept.
John 8.
34Jesus answered them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, everyone who commits sin is the slave of sin.
31So Jesus was saying to those Jews who had believed Him, “If you continue in My word, then you are truly disciples of Mine; 32and you will know the truth, and the truth will make you free.”
35“The slave does not remain in the house forever; the son does remain forever.
51“Truly, truly, I say to you, if anyone keeps My word he will never see death.”
Once again:
1) Those who "did the good deeds" (those who no longer commit sin: "sons" ) will come forth to "resurrection of life" ("remain in the house forever" ; "will never see death" ).
2) Those who "committed the evil deeds" (those who continue to commit sin: "slaves" ) will come forth to a " resurrection of judgment" ("does not remain in the house forever" ).
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22 Jan 19
@thinkofone saidAnd not forgetting John 17:25, 'O righteous Father, the world hath not known thee: but I have known thee, and these have known that thou hast sent me.'
Yet when everything is said and done in John 12, Jesus clearly and unambiguously declared that:
" the word I spoke is what will judge him at the last day."
Note that it's the words Jesus "spoke" that "will judge". Note that "spoke" is past tense. Not the words that the NT writers would have one believe Jesus "spoke" after the resurrection. Not the words that Paul and t ...[text shortened]... "slaves"😉 will come forth to a " resurrection of judgment" ("does not remain in the house forever".
22 Jan 19
4 edits
@kellyjay saidYou pretending to be a broken record that keeps skipping and repeating yourself?
You pretending to be a broken record that keeps skipping and repeating yourself?
Show a little life, you are quoting scripture, tell us about Jesus and the Father who
are they, or do you believe the proper question would be who they were?
That's really rich coming from you KJ.
You made the following assertion:
<<Jesus I have no issue with...>>
I pointed out the facts about our discussion thus far:
When I asserted that the words Jesus spoke when preaching His gospel while He walked the Earth have "meaning AND power" in and of themselves, you rejected it.
When I asserted that Jesus explained why his words are "worthy to be listened to", you rejected it.
You've also rejected all passages I cited wherein Jesus explained the importance of His words.
In short, you reject the gospel preached by Jesus while He walked the Earth.
No sense pretending otherwise.
You avoided addressing those facts by asking a variation of the same question you've been asking for months now:
<<You quoted this, "...I speak just as the Father has told Me.” you don't know who He was talking about?>>
So I put the same list of facts that you had dodged before you.
Then you accuse me of being a "broken record that keeps skipping and repeating ", when it's you who have been asking the same question or variations thereof over and over again for months? When it's you who avoided address the facts put before you?
You're a real piece of work KJ
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22 Jan 19
@thinkofone saidSaid the man dodging John 17:25.
You pretending to be a broken record that keeps skipping and repeating yourself?
That's really rich coming from you KJ.
You made the following assertion:
<<Jesus I have no issue with...>>
I pointed out the facts:
[quote]When I asserted that the words Jesus spoke when preaching His gospel while He walked the Earth have "meaning AND power" in and of themsel ...[text shortened]... onths? When it's you who avoided address the facts put before you?
You're a real piece of work KJ
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22 Jan 19
@divegeester saidA reminder of what this thread is about.
You repeatedly claim that this question is off topic so I thought it was about time that we gave it its own thread.
So tell us, as someone who proclaims the validity of the “words of Jesus” “while he was on earth”...
When Jesus said he was sent by God, was he correct?
22 Jan 19
@ghost-of-a-duke saidWhen it intentionally mischaracterizes what jaywill actually posted.
How is referencing something you have stated considered a lie?!
Just as you often intentionally mischaracterize what's actually been posted.
It's what trolls do. It's what you do.
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22 Jan 19
@thinkofone saidActually, trolls harass others and accuse them of dodging questions while doing exactly that themselves.
When it intentionally mischaracterizes what jaywill actually posted.
Just as you often intentionally mischaracterize what's actually been posted.
It's what trolls do. It's what you do.
If you are not such an individual how about posting like a grown up and explaining how you understand John 17:25. It's not a trick question. it's a very simple question about a book of the Bible you have just been referencing.