Can we use "Science" to find all the answers?

Originally posted by sonhouse
Actually, there is scientific evidence that the whole religious experience is in a small part of the brain, the religious cells, been shown by experiments with magnetic stimulation of brain.

Of course religious people would deny that to the grave.

Actually beyond the grave. 🙂
Kelly

Originally posted by KellyJay
You are asking evoutionist that believe no matter what the odds against
evolution were for going from non-living material into life, then changing into
the life we see day? As far as they are concern the odds really are "1" since
they say it happened the way they believe. It doesn't matter what the odds
against their faith really would be had it had to ...[text shortened]... t to point out how
unlikely any part of that is, because they believe no matter what!
Kelly

“...As far as they are concern the odds really are "1" ...”

which “odds” are you referring to here? The “odds” of what? The “odds” of evolution merely having happened or the “odds” of evolution having produced EXACTLY the outcome it did?
The probability of evolution having actually happened is 100% because we have overwhelming EVIDENCE (proof in fact) that it has happened.
The probability of evolution of producing EXACTLY whatsoever outcome it did would be one in a zillion -that, of course, has nothing to do with the probability of evolution having actually happened which is STILL 100% .

here is an analogy:

The probability of me having actually dealt out 1000 cards may be 100% if we have overwhelming EVIDENCE (to the point of being proof) that this is what I did.
The probability of me having producing EXACTLY whatsoever order of card that I did when I dealt out those 1000 card would be one in a zillion -that, of course, has nothing to do with the probability of me having actually dealt out the cards which is STILL 100% .

Originally posted by Andrew Hamilton
“...As far as they are concern the odds really are "1" ...”

which “odds” are you referring to here? The “odds” of what? The “odds” of evolution merely having happened or the “odds” of evolution having produced EXACTLY the outcome it did?
The probability of evolution having actually happened is 100% because we have overwhelming EVIDENCE (proof in ...[text shortened]... ing to do with the probability of me having actually dealt out the cards which is STILL 100% .

Yeah yeah but evolution is a process that apparently happened AFTER abiogenesis. What are the odds of abiogenesis happening? And where is the mountain of evidence that supports it? Before life can evolve you need life to exist. How was life formed from non-living material? Oh and where did the non-living material come from? Has it always existed?

Originally posted by dj2becker
Yeah yeah but evolution is a process that apparently happened AFTER abiogenesis. What are the odds of abiogenesis happening? And where is the mountain of evidence that supports it? Before life can evolve you need life to exist. How was life formed from non-living material? Oh and where did the non-living material come from? Has it always existed?

“...What are the odds of abiogenesis happening? ...”

under which circumstances? If the conditions are right then it may be inevitable.

“...And where is the mountain of evidence that supports it? ...”

I could point out merely to the obvious fact that life exists and, short of explaining that with stupid superstition such as “a god did it”, we could not be here without abiogenesis and THIS mere fact is the evidence. However, there is additional evidence in the form of research into the most likely way it happened which gives it a great deal of additional credibility (not that it NEEDS “additional” credibility! ): http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/abioprob/originoflife.html#RNAworld

also listen to:
http://wn.com/Abiogenesis

“...How was life formed from non-living material? ...”

read the above links.

“...Oh and where did the non-living material come from? ...”

the Big Bang; energy was converted to matter.

Originally posted by Andrew Hamilton
“...As far as they are concern the odds really are "1" ...”

which “odds” are you referring to here? The “odds” of what? The “odds” of evolution merely having happened or the “odds” of evolution having produced EXACTLY the outcome it did?
The probability of evolution having actually happened is 100% because we have overwhelming EVIDENCE (proof in ...[text shortened]... ing to do with the probability of me having actually dealt out the cards which is STILL 100% .

As I said, no matter what the odds were against it, you think it is a 1.
You are a true believer.
Kelly

Originally posted by dj2becker
Yeah yeah but evolution is a process that apparently happened AFTER abiogenesis. What are the odds of abiogenesis happening? And where is the mountain of evidence that supports it? Before life can evolve you need life to exist. How was life formed from non-living material? Oh and where did the non-living material come from? Has it always existed?

It again does not matter, you cannot put an odds on it, because all of the
true believers, believe the odds are 1. They cannot look at it as being anything
other than what they say, they cannot look at it without thinking they must be
right, because they are here.
Kelly

Originally posted by KellyJay
So tell me, is there anything or better yet any combinations of things in living
systems that could not come from evolution?

You asked that before, and I and others made it quite clear that yes, we do believe that some things would be impossible.

If you say nothing than I'm telling you, you've just proved my point, there are no odds against anything within living system that you think cannot be over come.
Which would be dishonest of you. If I say I think something would be possible or likely then I would specifically be talking about the odds. ie if I say that a particular system could happen via evolution I would probably mean that the odds are at least possible. You may dispute the odds, but it is wrong of you to deduce that I think evolution can overcome any odds.

What makes this even worse for you, that forces you into the doing the very thing you cry about with
Christians and other people of faith, the only good answers to the questions
are yours, not unlike what you accuse the JW of.
Kelly
I am afraid I don't really get that. Are you saying there are good answers to question that I am ignoring? Can you demonstrate that?

The fact is that you are saying that evolutionists believe that evolution can overcome any odds. That is false. You know it is false. We have gone through it before and explained it to you in other threads. For you to repeat it is being dishonest.
If you has said that you disputed the odds, I would let you off, but that is not what you said.

Originally posted by Andrew Hamilton
“...As far as they are concern the odds really are "1" ...”

which “odds” are you referring to here? The “odds” of what? The “odds” of evolution merely having happened or the “odds” of evolution having produced EXACTLY the outcome it did?
The probability of evolution having actually happened is 100% because we have overwhelming EVIDENCE (proof in ...[text shortened]... ing to do with the probability of me having actually dealt out the cards which is STILL 100% .

"The probability of me having producing EXACTLY whatsoever order of card that I did when I dealt out those 1000 card would be one in a zillion -that, of course, has nothing to do with the probability of me having actually dealt out the cards which is STILL 100% .[/b]"

Your right, there is a difference between dealing the cards and saying what
cards have to show up in what order before they are dealt. You error in that
you assume that there is an order that can be dealt that will produce life
under the conditions that were present X years ago. This is like saying like
getting life from non-life is like a combination lock, you assume there is a
right sequence of numbers to hit, and once it was hit, the lock will open or life
will start. You do not look at it in such a way that questions if life can be
reached by getting the right cards in order, you assume that there is a right
sequence of numbers that will open the lock under the conditions being
suggested, you just assume there is so you assume the odds are 1. Which again
puts you on par with those of faith you question from time to time.

Evolutionist assume all the right answers are theirs, they assume the odds of
them being right are 1, and those that question them are wrong, and if all
understood what they did everyone would be forced to agree with them. Much
like the complaints people rail against the JW for.
Kelly

Originally posted by Andrew Hamilton
“...As far as they are concern the odds really are "1" ...”

which “odds” are you referring to here? The “odds” of what? The “odds” of evolution merely having happened or the “odds” of evolution having produced EXACTLY the outcome it did?
The probability of evolution having actually happened is 100% because we have overwhelming EVIDENCE (proof in ...[text shortened]... ing to do with the probability of me having actually dealt out the cards which is STILL 100% .

I would say that with the kind of thinking you exhibit that there
is no way you could possibly last in any important job in this
world today. You would have to get lucky with the lotto.

Originally posted by KellyJay
Evolutionist assume all the right answers are theirs, they assume the odds of
them being right are 1

So you have gone from saying that evolutionists believe evolution can overcome all odds, to saying that evolutionists believe that the odds of anything are 1 (and therefore no odds need be overcome).
Which is it? What do evolutionists really believe regarding odds? Have you actually listened to anything an evolutionist has said?

Originally posted by twhitehead
So you have gone from saying that evolutionists believe evolution can overcome all odds, to saying that evolutionists believe that the odds of anything are 1 (and therefore no odds need be overcome).
Which is it? What do evolutionists really believe regarding odds? Have you actually listened to anything an evolutionist has said?

Go back a few posts and see that the evolutionist Andrew Hamilton
said the odds were "1".

Originally posted by RJHinds
Go back a few posts and see that the evolutionist Andrew Hamilton
said the odds were "1".

I know what Andrew said. I am asking Kelly to make up his mind what his claim is. One moment he says evolutionists accept any odds, next moment he says the exact opposite ie that evolutionists think the odds are 1.

Originally posted by Andrew Hamilton
“...What are the odds of abiogenesis happening? ...”

under which circumstances? If the conditions are right then it may be inevitable.

“...And where is the mountain of evidence that supports it? ...”

I could point out merely to the obvious fact that life exists and, short of explaining that with stupid superstition such as “a god did it”, we ...[text shortened]... ere did the non-living material come from? ...”

the Big Bang; energy was converted to matter.

So you strongly believe that something definitely happened accidentally with no intelligent intervention even though we cannot use our own intelligence to conjure up the right conditions to reproduce it? Is Science not based on observations and the reproduction of experiments? Surely if life happened by chance with no intelligent intervention then scientists should at least be able to use the intelligence they have to reproduce the conditions in the lab and create life. Science has no explanation for where the energy for the big bang came from, and anyone who ventures to say that maybe the energy for the big bang came from a greater source of energy e.g. God, is just plane stupid right?

Originally posted by dj2becker
So you strongly believe that something definitely happened accidentally with no intelligent intervention even though we cannot use our own intelligence to conjure up the right conditions to reproduce it? Is Science not based on observations and the reproduction of experiments? Surely if life happened by chance with no intelligent intervention then scientis ...[text shortened]... ergy for the big bang came from a greater source of energy e.g. God, is just plane stupid right?

I always find the intelligent design argument curious. If you need an 'outside' intelligence to explain how we got our intelligence, the question for me is - How did the 'outside' intelligence get it's intelligence?

Where does the 'cosmic buck' stop?

Originally posted by Proper Knob
I always find the intelligent design argument curious. If you need an 'outside' intelligence to explain how we got our intelligence, the question for me is - How did the 'outside' intelligence get it's intelligence?

Where does the 'cosmic buck' stop?

What about the outside intelligence has always existed and is the ultimate source of energy?