16 Jul 08
4 edits
Originally posted by scherzoUm ... There's no other way.
Um ... no.
Steady State theory has been pretty much rejected by the science community for now.
The irony is that you probably think that the Creator doesn't care about such things.
The resurrection of Christ is God's answer to all kinds of decay, corruption, death, wearing out, wearing down, fizzling out, scattering, burning down, burning out, drying up, dying, etc. etc.
You fail to grasp the universal significance of the resurrection of the Son of God in the Bible.
16 Jul 08
Originally posted by DoctorScribblesDust off your New Testament. Look at Romans 8 around verses 26 to 30 or so about the creation and the plan of God.
Humor us. What is the analytical connection between the resurrection and cosmology?
Come back and tell me what it says.
16 Jul 08
1 edit
Originally posted by jaywillHey, what do you know!
Dust off your New Testament. Look at Romans 8 around verses 26 to 30 or so about the creation and the plan of God.
Come back and tell me what it says.
Romans 8:26: "And lo, I do say unto you, the curvature of the universe is a property quantum-bound with the resurrection of Jesus."
16 Jul 08
3 edits
Originally posted by darthmixHmmm. Maybe I need to find that passage again myself.
It says that God has a plan, and then it says that God gave some people foreknowledge of the coming of Jesus (I think) and before that there's a bit about how the holy spirit helps us pray really good.
Here is what I mean. Starting in 8:18 (Sorry Scribbles. My mistake.)
" For I consider that the suffering of this present time are not worthy to be compared to the coming glory which shall be revealed upon us. (v.18)
For the anxious watching of the creation eagerly awaits the revelation of the sons of God. (v.19)
For the creation was made subject to vanity, not of its own will, but because of Him who subjected it. (v.20)
In hope that the creation itself will also be freed from the slavery of corruption into the freedom of the glory of the children of God. (v.21)
For we know that the whole creation groans together and travails in pain together until now. (v.22)
And not only so, but we ourselves, who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we groan in ourselves, eagerly awaiting the redemption of our body. (v.23)
Redmption of our bodies refers to the resurrection, rapture and glorification of the bodies of the saved sons of God to be manifested.
The leading cause of the prevention of the decay of the creation is the manifestation of the sons of God.
And of course verses 28,29 speak of this as God's purpose to conform many brothers to Christ the Firstborn Son of God.
Reality is more fascinating than fiction. So, God's eternal plan including the resurrection of Christ and His brothers is the key to the release of the creation, ie. the universe from the slavery of corruption. I would include that to even mean the dying out of the stars and the growing cold and dispersion of the atoms.
You see the whole big tremendous thing is for God's eternal purpose.
So the resurrection of Jesus, I feel, according to Paul's teaching, is the key to the perpetual lasting of the created universe.
It is amazing how people miss or underestimate the centrality of Jesus Christ to the meaning of all life and existence.
17 Jul 08
Originally posted by DoctorScribblesSeriously, look at verses 18 - 23 and then add 28,29.
Hey, what do you know!
Romans 8:26: "And lo, I do say unto you, the curvature of the universe is a property quantum-bound with the resurrection of Jesus."
Don't be stumbled by the fact that it was written before the invention of the microscope and the telescope.
17 Jul 08
Originally posted by jaywillI read the verses and found no basis for suspecting that there might be some analytical connection between their contents and any modern cosmological model.
Seriously, look at verses 18 - 23 and then add 28,29.
Don't be stumbled by the fact that it was written before the invention of the microscope and the telescope.
17 Jul 08
1 edit
Originally posted by DoctorScribblesThen you probably don't consider the known universe to be "the creation".
I read the verses and found no basis for suspecting that there might be some analytical connection between their contents and any modern cosmological model.
If not then what do you think it is?
17 Jul 08
1 edit
Originally posted by jaywillLet us suppose for argument that it is. Let us substitute "universe" for each instance of "creation" in the verses. I still see no connection between the verses and any cosmological models of the future of the universe.
Then you probably don't consider the known universe to be [b]"the creation".
[/b]
17 Jul 08
1 edit
Originally posted by jaywill=============================
LOL !!! You made me crack up that time.
Romans 8:26: "And lo, I do say unto you, the curvature of the universe is a property quantum-bound with the resurrection of Jesus."
===================================
Is this any better?
Romans 8:27 Scribbles Translation - "Yea, for knowest that these things concerning Christ I write unto you only refer to the little space of building between these colorful stain glass windows."
17 Jul 08
Originally posted by DoctorScribblesYou mentioned "any cosmological model". I didn't.
Let us suppose for argument that it is. Let us substitute "universe" for each instance of "creation" in the verses. I still see no connection between the verses and any cosmological models of the future of the universe.
Creation is creation is creation. That should be simple enough to grasp.
17 Jul 08
Originally posted by jaywillhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schizophasia
[b]=============================
Romans 8:26: "And lo, I do say unto you, the curvature of the universe is a property quantum-bound with the resurrection of Jesus."
===================================
Is this any better?
Romans 8:27 Scribbles Translation - "Yea, for knowest that these things concerning Christ I write unto you only refer to the little space of building between these colorful stain glass windows."[/b]
17 Jul 08
Originally posted by jaywillThat's why I'm asking you to humor us and demonstrate, just as an example, of how these verses analytically reveal a flaw in some modern cosmological theory. As I see it, they have no bearing whatsoever; their truth values and the truth of any modern cosmological model appear to be completely independent to me, so I'm asking you to show me why this is not so.
You mentioned "any cosmological model". I didn't.