Can you stop loving someone?

Originally posted by karoly aczel
I disagree.

1. True love cannot die.

2.God can not hate

3.One can experience the absence of love, for a very long time in certain cases, but if it was love (in the first place) then it is still there, buried under all those other thoughts and emotions...

I think all that sounds nice in theory but the practical realities of love and life are totally different.

Originally posted by yo its me
Once you've let someone into your heart they're there forever imo.
Love is not just an emotion like anyother emotion, it's also a choice.
I have no doubt that God is terribly awesome; to be feared and capable of destroying entire civilisations, but He has promised (rainbow) that He won't and found a way for us to be accepted if we make that choice.
My feet are on the ground, indeed.

2 Questions:

- Suppose your ex who treated you badly got worse and now intends to kill you, would you let him do it or will you stop him at all cost.

- those civilizations which God destroyed, did he love them?

Originally posted by Rajk999
Certain family members yes. I have experienced several failed relationships and there is no love there as much time has passed. I wish them well in their life but whatever love was there is now dead. The point is the love can die, and because it dies does not mean that it was not love in the first place, as the opening post implies.

There is also a sugge ...[text shortened]... e Christians that God cannot hate. That is incorrect as the Bible refers plainly to such things.

Matthew 5:43-44

You have heard that it was said "You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy". But I say to you, love your enemies...

How do you interpret this?

It seems that Jesus is teaching something that was very different from the Old Testament (which is filled with the expression of hateful feelings for enemies).

Was Jesus stating that God was now changing the way he approaches humanity? Was this the reason why the Father sent the Son to be crucified? -- So that God would no longer have to destroy whole civilizations?

Originally posted by Melanerpes
Matthew 5:43-44

You have heard that it was said "You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy". But I say to you, love your enemies...

How do you interpret this?

It seems that Jesus is teaching something that was very different from the Old Testament (which is filled with the expression of hateful feelings for enemies).

Was Jesus stating t ...[text shortened]... t the Son to be crucified? -- So that God would no longer have to destroy whole civilizations?

Can you answer the two questions I asked Yoitsme ?

Originally posted by Rajk999
Can you answer the two questions I asked Yoitsme ?

The first question involves the issue of "free will" - a complex topic that has been debated at length for many centuries. I don't want to open that can of worms right now.

I am specifically addressing the second question -- Jesus himself says that enemies are to be loved -- something that is the opposite of the underlying assumptions in much of the Old Testament.

A major exception in the Old Testament was the prophet Jonah - who was called to go to Nineveh to give them the opportunity to repent. Nineveh was the capital of Assyria, one of Israel's greatest enemies. So Jonah, like pretty much anyone else in Israel at the time, hated Nineveh with a passion, and was NOT interested in seeing the Ninevites repent.

a similar message is in Luke 9:54 when the Samaritans block Jesus -
When the disciples James and John saw this they asked, "Lord, do you want us to call down fire from heaven to consume them?". Jesus turned and rebuked them.

the disciples were referring to the way Elijah would call down fire to consume his enemies. The Samaritans were probably hated by first century Jews just as much as the Ninevites were 700 years before. But Jesus here shows a very different approach. As in the book of Jonah, it is clear that Jesus is NOT interested in destroying his enemies - instead he wants to save them, to redeem them. Like Jonah, the disciples clearly didn't understand this.

Originally posted by Melanerpes
The first question involves the issue of "free will" - a complex topic that has been debated at length for many centuries. I don't want to open that can of worms right now.

I am specifically addressing the second question -- Jesus himself says that enemies are to be loved -- something that is the opposite of the underlying assumptions in much of the Ol ...[text shortened]... s to save them, to redeem them. Like Jonah, the disciples clearly didn't understand this.

You are certainly not being realistic and fair in your interpretation of what Christ is saying. Did not the same Jesus Christ say that he will come and utterly destroy, and burn with everlasting fire, and cast into outer darkness, etc etc. Not everyone will be saved, but many will perish.

Are you saying the loving your enemies means laying down and allowing a killer to destroy those you love? Imagine a man is about to shoot your family and you have in your hand a weapon that will stop him and kill him. Will you not use that weapon?

Originally posted by Rajk999
You are certainly not being realistic and fair in your interpretation of what Christ is saying. Did not the same Jesus Christ say that he will come and utterly destroy, and burn with everlasting fire, and cast into outer darkness, etc etc. Not everyone will be saved, but many will perish.

Are you saying the loving your enemies means laying down and allow ...[text shortened]... nd you have in your hand a weapon that will stop him and kill him. Will you not use that weapon?

Jesus is not saying we should eliminate the police and the armies and allow total anarchy. Obviously, if people commit certain crimes, they need to serve a sentence. In extreme cases, one may indeed need to kill someone to protect himself or his family.

But Jesus is here addressing the natural tendency for people to become filled with bitterness and hatred regarding those who've mistreated them. Jesus is saying that no matter how badly someone has treated you (or your family or your nation etc), you must still love them.

That means letting go of that bitterness and hatred and truly wanting what is best for that person. This is what Jonah did not want to do. He was full of bitterness and hatred for the Ninevites, and did NOT want what was best for the Ninevites (the opportunity to repent).

One of the things that does cause people to be destroyed or cast into outer darkness is when they hold onto bitterness and hatred. Their whole lives become centered around "getting revenge" or "putting them in their place" -- which leaves little room in their hearts for love.

Originally posted by Rajk999
2 Questions:

- Suppose your ex who treated you badly got worse and now intends to kill you, would you let him do it or will you stop him at all cost.

- those civilizations which God destroyed, did he love them?

I can't answer the first question, I don't understand it for a start- I've already said I'm strong enough to stop his behaviour. Who would let someone kill them?? Bizzare question imo.

The second question has been answered well by Melanerpes. I think the Bible tells an interesting journey of love- becasue God, Jesus and The Holy Spirt are one and so they can not contridict eachother- although to us mear humans it's not clear how it all ties in perhaps.

Originally posted by Melanerpes
Jesus is not saying we should eliminate the police and the armies and allow total anarchy. Obviously, if people commit certain crimes, they need to serve a sentence. In extreme cases, one may indeed need to kill someone to protect himself or his family.

But Jesus is here addressing the natural tendency for people to become filled with bitterness and h ...[text shortened]... nge" or "putting them in their place" -- which leaves little room in their hearts for love.

So you will kill in order to protect yourself and your family. Thats what I wanted to hear. 'Love your enemies' has its place. You cannot love everyone. God does not love sinners who fail to repent and there are many such people.

Sin and not following the commandments of God is what will cause people to be cast into outer darkness. Read Matt 25 instead of making up your own doctrine.

Originally posted by yo its me
I can't answer the first question, I don't understand it for a start- I've already said I'm strong enough to stop his behaviour. Who would let someone kill them?? Bizzare question imo.

The second question has been answered well by Melanerpes. I think the Bible tells an interesting journey of love- becasue God, Jesus and The Holy Spirt are one and so the ...[text shortened]... contridict eachother- although to us mear humans it's not clear how it all ties in perhaps.

The Bible is very clear that God hates sin and sinners who dont repent. Do not change what the Bible said to suit your taste. That in itself is a sin.

There are many situations when love is not an option. Like I said before you live in a strange world if that is what you believe.

Originally posted by Rajk999
So you will kill in order to protect yourself and your family. Thats what I wanted to hear. 'Love your enemies' has its place. You cannot love everyone. God does not love sinners who fail to repent and there are many such people.

Sin and not following the commandments of God is what will cause people to be cast into outer darkness. Read Matt 25 instead of making up your own doctrine.

But Paul makes it clear that no one is meet the demands of "the law"

Consider Matthew 25. What if we replace the Mosaic law and this new "Matthew 25 Law"? Have you and I ALWAYS responded to those in need? Are there not many times where you and I have failed (and failed miserably)?

So, at the end of the day, ALL of us are goats. Sure, we've all had our good moments when we've done good things -- but the fact that you have acted like a sheep more often than I (or vice versa) isn't going to matter. In fact, the more we think like this, the more we become like the pharisee trying to impress God with all the great things he's been doing.

So all of us are going to be goats - all except for one person who will be considered a sheep -- or more accurately, a Lamb.

Originally posted by Melanerpes
But Paul makes it clear that no one is meet the demands of "the law"

Consider Matthew 25. What if we replace the Mosaic law and this new "Matthew 25 Law"? Have you and I ALWAYS responded to those in need? Are there not many times where you and I have failed (and failed miserably)?

So, at the end of the day, ALL of us are goats. Sure, we've all had o ...[text shortened]... all except for one person who will be considered a sheep -- or more accurately, a Lamb.

Christ is the judge of who will be sheep and who will be goats. Not you. Not Paul. Not I.
Paul is saying that nobody is perfect, but lack of perfection does not mean we must not continue to strive for perfection, and continue to help those in need. Your implication that the more we try to do good works the more we become like the Pharisees is utter rubbish and totally contrary to everything Christ preached. Anyone who believes that all they need to proclaim their faith in Christ and then sit back on their lazy butts is in for a unpleasant surprise.

Matt 25 is clear as are the many other passages which state clearly ... Christ will judge according to our works.

Originally posted by Rajk999
I think all that sounds nice in theory but the practical realities of love and life are totally different.

True, but are we not striving for change, personally and collectively?

Are we capable of living upto our potentials?

Remember that positive action starts with positive thoughts.
I get really sick of the "Tall poppy syndrome" which is quite prevelant here in Australia.

Originally posted by karoly aczel
True, but are we not striving for change, personally and collectively?

Are we capable of living upto our potentials?

Remember that positive action starts with positive thoughts.
I get really sick of the "Tall poppy syndrome" which is quite prevelant here in Australia.

I think this is the point Jesus was trying to make regarding the pharisees et.al.

The pharisees tried to justify themselves by looking down on everyone else - especially people like tax collectors and Samaritans. And even though the pharisees did many good works, they were just a bunch of "noisy gongs and clanging cymbals" because they weren't really motivated by love.

"Tall poppy syndrome" is a similar thing that springs from this same "comparison game"

The point Jesus was making is not that "good works" aren't important -- Matthew 25 clearly indicates that they are -- BUT - he (like Paul) was saying that those good works must be motivated by love, not spiritual egoism. And this can't be merely a superficial emotion - it has to be the kind of love that can love even the most unlovable people -- i.e enemies and lepers (and, yes, even pharisees).

This doesn't mean that God is not calling for people to repent. I apologize to Rajk if I gave the impression that this wasn't important. It is. But this repentence isn't merely about "behaving better" -- it's about a total "rethinking" -- moving away from a selfish view that sees others as "threats" or selfish "opportunities" -- and towards a divine view that sees others (including "Samaritans" and "tax collectors" ) as neighbors to be loved as one loves oneself.

Originally posted by Melanerpes
I think this is the point Jesus was trying to make regarding the pharisees et.al.

The pharisees tried to justify themselves by looking down on everyone else - especially people like tax collectors and Samaritans. And even though the pharisees did many good works, they were just a bunch of "noisy gongs and clanging cymbals" because they weren't really m and "tax collectors" ) as neighbors to be loved as one loves oneself.

Hey Melanerpes, there is no need to apologise to me for disagreeing with me or not explaining yourself properly. We are debating and this will happen.

Anyway ..
- it is important to remember that only Christ knows what peoples motives are for doing good works and he will judge accordingly.
- Christ is not expecting perfection and to state that everyone will be in the goats category because we did not ALWAYS help, is just plain wrong. If there are no sheep then Christ would never claim to separate the sheep from the goats. How can he do that when there are no sheep ??

Christ knows our heart and he will judge. We cannot preempt judgment and tell Christians what to do and how to do it. Christ said to go out there and do good works and thats all there is to it.

Many Christians make a big issue about how we do works, if we should do good works and even start to imply that works are not important. Thats really dangerous ground on which to tread because it contradicts what Christ preached.