Spirituality
28 Oct 12
29 Oct 12
Originally posted by googlefudgeMy belief in God have stood up to scrutiny and ridicule and will continue to stand up to scrutiny and ridicule for it the truth that leads to life.
In fairness I have to put my hand up and say that I for one do deride religious beliefs
as and when I feel they need deriding.
And I certainly deride the reasons for holding those beliefs.
However I would also contend that any belief worth holding can withstand scrutiny and
ridicule.
Suzianne's problem is that her beliefs don't stand up ...[text shortened]... rutiny and ridicule.
And I suspect (hope) that (subconsciously at least) she realises that.
HalleluYah !!! Praise the Lord! Holy! Holy! Holy!
29 Oct 12
Originally posted by RJHindsThat you retain a belief in the face of scrutiny does not entail that the belief has survived scrutiny.
My belief in God have stood up to scrutiny and ridicule and will continue to stand up to scrutiny and ridicule for it the truth that leads to life.
HalleluYah !!! Praise the Lord! Holy! Holy! Holy!
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29 Oct 12
Originally posted by RJHindsyou dont have to put somebody on death row to stop them from killing, life in prison would would have the same effect.
FMF would say you have made a straw man so you can argue against it. My position on capital punishment for the murderer is that it prevents the murderer from ever committing another murder. What effect it has on someone else I did not say. 😏
P.S. I said:
[b]"Eliminating the evil perpetrator from society is the only way that we can deal with the evil that is already there."[/b]
why wait until the first murder has been committed, most people who end up on death row have lived very similar lives, the social conditions that produce a person likely to commit murder can be spotted at an early age, there are 2 or 3 points in the average death row inmates life where intervention from a well run social service can change the path of that individuals life. but as ive said before, talking about social services doesnt win votes in elections, for some bizarre reason people like to hear about more the punishment than methods of help.
29 Oct 12
Originally posted by bbarrThe question appears to me to be purely speculative, the Bible gives scant details and
I'm confused. Suppose we have S, a soul; an entire living, breathing entity. Suppose S dies. Then S is recreated by God, from memory, at the resurrection (or whatever it's called). Let's call this recreated creature S2. You claim that S and S2 bear a relationship of personal identity to each other. They are the same person. But in what does this relatio ...[text shortened]... S2 if S2 is simply a different, but very similar person that God created after S's death.
is therefore unanswerable to any great degree. Will you have the same faculties, the
same personality, the same physical attributes, its really hard to say, for the conditions
which formed our personalties will be entirely different. If we were born with some
kind of physical deformity, it would hardly be a kindness to be resurrected with the
same disfigurement. so many unknowns. Suffice to say, we do possess a soul. Adam
was not given a soul, he became a soul (a living breathing entity) when God infused
him with the, 'breath of life'. Animals are also termed souls in the Bible for this same
reason.
Originally posted by LemonJelloI read the thread myself, as i stated, call it what you will, the basis for your use of the
As already discussed in the thread to which I linked, I undertand well your position as you yourself clarified it. It certainly does profess life after death, even though it does not profess what you call "immediate" life after death.
I will continue to label your discussion regarding this point "misleading" because that label is clearly appropriate wers the question....
And as if the answer to the original question is "No"....
term ,'misleading' is purely an opinion and your validation for its use which you term
'appropriate', another opinion, yours not surprisingly. It of course carries with it
connotations to deliberately deceive when in fact its nothing but the expression of a
simple belief and of course your assertion miserably fails when one considers that the
resurrection is a hope and that its our consensus that some individuals will not merit a
resurrection at all. Its a pity you did not make reference to the fact before you uttered
your ill conceived opinions, not of course that details matter in comparison to your
opinions, sure you carry on, call it what you like, validate your opinions with other
opinions, the fact of the matter is, we do not believe that a part of us transcends
death and we are to my knowledge unique in this regard as theists.
29 Oct 12
I asked of sumydid earlier in this thread whether he, standing up for his belief in capital punishment, would be prepared to carry out such a sentence. He chose not to respond however, and frankly I was not surprised - answer 'no' for hypocrisy, answer 'yes' for... well, seems a bit off-message for a christian, eh? Anyway, I'd be very interested to hear the views of other supporters of the death penalty.
I am particularly surprised to encounter christians who count themselves in favour of capital punishment. Surely no christian would be prepared to act as an executioner? How then would the sentences be carried out?
29 Oct 12
Originally posted by avalanchethecatI think the matter is one for the governments, Christians are of course counselled to be
I asked of sumydid earlier in this thread whether he, standing up for his belief in capital punishment, would be prepared to carry out such a sentence. He chose not to respond however, and frankly I was not surprised - answer 'no' for hypocrisy, answer 'yes' for... well, seems a bit off-message for a christian, eh? Anyway, I'd be very interested to h ...[text shortened]... an would be prepared to act as an executioner? How then would the sentences be carried out?
in subjection to these superior authorities.
Originally posted by robbie carrobiethe fact of the matter is, we do not believe that a part of us transcends
I read the thread myself, as i stated, call it what you will, the basis for your use of the
term ,'misleading' is purely an opinion and your validation for its use which you term
'appropriate', another opinion, yours not surprisingly. It of course carries with it
connotations to deliberately deceive when in fact its nothing but the expression o ...[text shortened]... a part of us transcends
death and we are to my knowledge unique in this regard as theists.
death
And as I have told you now several times: that is at best misleading as an answer to the question of whether or not you believe in life after death. The fact of the matter is, you believe that you -- the very same person that you are -- will get resurrected back to life by God sometime after your death. If that is not a belief in "life after death", then nothing is.
Christ, you're disingenuous. This reminds me of the scene from Everybody Loves Raymond when Ray is grilling Marie about her saying she likes Amy more than Debra:
Ray: "Did you say that you like Amy more than Debra?"
Marie: "I am not....saying that."
Ray: "I know. I know you're not saying it now. But did you say it -- ever?"
Compare to:
Someone other than Robbie (SotR): "Do you believe in life after death?"
Robbie (R): "No, I do not believe in...immediate life after death."
SotR: "I know. But I'm not asking that. Do you believe in life after death, whether it be immediate or non-immediate?"
R: [insert more evasion here].
29 Oct 12
Originally posted by robbie carrobieOf course. Although oddly enough they can be pretty strident in their opposition of these 'superior' authorities when they find themselves in disagreement.
I think the matter is one for the governments, Christians are of course counselled to be
in subjection to these superior authorities.
29 Oct 12
Originally posted by stellspalfieHaven't you heard people murder in prison too? Murderers kill guards and break out of prison to kill other. Don't you ever pay attention to the news?
you dont have to put somebody on death row to stop them from killing, life in prison would would have the same effect.
why wait until the first murder has been committed, most people who end up on death row have lived very similar lives, the social conditions that produce a person likely to commit murder can be spotted at an early age, there are 2 or ...[text shortened]... ons, for some bizarre reason people like to hear about more the punishment than methods of help.
29 Oct 12
Originally posted by robbie carrobieOur soul, the same soul, is resurrected in a glorified body. We are the same, but the body is different.
The question appears to me to be purely speculative, the Bible gives scant details and
is therefore unanswerable to any great degree. Will you have the same faculties, the
same personality, the same physical attributes, its really hard to say, for the conditions
which formed our personalties will be entirely different. If we were born with so ...[text shortened]... ith the, 'breath of life'. Animals are also termed souls in the Bible for this same
reason.
Originally posted by robbie carrobieSo, if it is impossible to say that S2 will have the same faculties, capacities, traits and characteristics that S had prior to death, then doesn't it follow that it is impossible to say whether S2 will, in fact, be personally identical with S? At least, that would follow if personal identity consisted in things like faculties, capacities, traits and characteristics. Of course, if you think something else fixes personal identity, then I'm interested in knowing what it is. Presumably, it would be something other than those things about which you find it impossible to say much, and would also be something that S2 and S share....
The question appears to me to be purely speculative, the Bible gives scant details and
is therefore unanswerable to any great degree. Will you have the same faculties, the
same personality, the same physical attributes, its really hard to say, for the conditions
which formed our personalties will be entirely different. If we were born with so ...[text shortened]... ith the, 'breath of life'. Animals are also termed souls in the Bible for this same
reason.
29 Oct 12
Originally posted by robbie carrobieSince the body decays to dust and the life-giving spirit returns to God at death, then how can you be resurrected if you do not exist anymore? How can the body be killed and not the soul as the scripture says? Why does the scripture verse refer to body, soul, and spirit? That seems to me and most Christians to mean that each human consists of body, soul, and spirit. What is your explanation?
I read the thread myself, as i stated, call it what you will, the basis for your use of the
term ,'misleading' is purely an opinion and your validation for its use which you term
'appropriate', another opinion, yours not surprisingly. It of course carries with it
connotations to deliberately deceive when in fact its nothing but the expression o ...[text shortened]... a part of us transcends
death and we are to my knowledge unique in this regard as theists.