Capital Punishment: Murder?

Originally posted by karoly aczel
Are you implying that not all children are born 'peaceful'? That violence is not inbuilt but learnt behaviour?

Violence can defintely be learnt, so I don't see why peaceful behavior can not be leant. I believe babies are born neutral.

Originally posted by RJHinds
Violence can defintely be learnt, so I don't see why peaceful behavior can not be leant. I believe babies are born neutral.

'Neutral' is a peaceful (state) is it not? Do you get my gist or not? Lets not waste precious pixels ..

Originally posted by karoly aczel
'Neutral' is a peaceful (state) is it not? Do you get my gist or not? Lets not waste precious pixels ..

Maybe we are having linguistics problems again. Neutral to me means belonging to neither side. A baby does not have the ability to choose to be peaceful or violent. They can get upset if they are hungry or in need of a diaper change, however.

Originally posted by bbarr
So, if it is impossible to say that S2 will have the same faculties, capacities, traits and characteristics that S had prior to death, then doesn't it follow that it is impossible to say whether S2 will, in fact, be personally identical with S? At least, that would follow if personal identity consisted in things like faculties, capacities, traits and characte ...[text shortened]... which you find it impossible to say much, and would also be something that S2 and S share....

Naturally ones physical attributes are fixed by the genetic code, are they not? That is
why I have blue yes, for example. Personal identity may be shaped by many things,
those which are external, life experience, culture, education, religion and those which
are internal, values we have assimilated and those which we have forged ourselves,
hopefully as the product of reason and reflection.

Originally posted by LemonJello
[b]the fact of the matter is, we do not believe that a part of us transcends
death

And as I have told you now several times: that is at best misleading as an answer to the question of whether or not you believe in life after death. The fact of the matter is, you believe that you -- the very same person that you are -- will get resurrected back t ...[text shortened]... , whether it be immediate or non-immediate?"
R: [insert more evasion here].[/b]

We do not profess life after death in the sense that we do not profess that a part of us,
termed the soul, transcends death. I personally have no problem with that statement,
it seems lucid, unaffected and pertinent. If you wish to introduce all kinds of
clauses and provisos so that you may term it misleading or disingenuous, then once
again, be my guest.

Originally posted by RJHinds
Haven't you heard people murder in prison too? Murderers kill guards and break out of prison to kill other. Don't you ever pay attention to the news?

really r.j??? is this your defence, is this your best reason for having the death penalty. if this is where your logic has taken you, do you really think you've thought about the subject hard enough - we should have the death penalty because murderers 'might' kill again in prison, or they 'might' escape.

what you are essentially doing is sentencing them to death based on crimes they 'might' commit. using that logic you could take them off the street in their early teens and kill them before they commit any murder, because looking at their juvenile record and social circumstances they 'might' kill in the future.

Originally posted by avalanchethecat
Of course. Although oddly enough they can be pretty strident in their opposition of these 'superior' authorities when they find themselves in disagreement.

Its a relative subjection, relative to the law of the Christ.

Originally posted by RJHinds
Our soul, the same soul, is resurrected in a glorified body. We are the same, but the body is different.

You still have not said what a soul is, so I will ask you once again, what is a soul?

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
Naturally ones physical attributes are fixed by the genetic code, are they not? That is
why I have blue yes, for example. Personal identity may be shaped by many things,
those which are external, life experience, culture, education, religion and those which
are internal, values we have assimilated and those which we have forged ourselves,
hopefully as the product of reason and reflection.

No, one's physical attributes are not fixed by one's genetic code, or else monozygotic twins would remain physically identical over time. Genetics provides constraints on physical attributes. Height, weight, and all sorts of other physical attributes result from the interaction between genetics and the environment. Even the environment in utero can partially determine whether certain genotypic properties manifest phenotypically.

In any case, I asked you a very specific question about the properties S and S2 must share in order for a relationship of personal identity to obtain between them. Do you have an answer for that question?

Originally posted by bbarr
No, one's physical attributes are not fixed by one's genetic code, or else monozygotic twins would remain physically identical over time. Genetics provides constraints on physical attributes. Height, weight, and all sorts of other physical attributes result from the interaction between genetics and the environment. Even the environment in utero can partiall ...[text shortened]... ionship of personal identity to obtain between them. Do you have an answer for that question?

they at least have some bearing on it and to cite an anomaly is hardly consistent. I
think i have already stated, the answer you seek is unanswerable, at least from a
Biblical perspective.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
We do not profess life after death in the sense that we do not profess that a part of us,
termed the soul, transcends death. I personally have no problem with that statement,
it seems lucid, unaffected and pertinent. If you wish to introduce all kinds of
clauses and provisos so that you may term it misleading or disingenuous, then once
again, be my guest.

I see...so you believe that whenever you find yourself in paradise (whether you're among the lucky 144000 or not) after physical death here on earth, you will not be alive...maybe a zombie or something!

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
You still have not said what a soul is, so I will ask you once again, what is a soul?

I have already told you a couple of times. The soul is the real person, it is not the material body. I used many scriptural verses to prove it too. The body has no will, but the soul does. The soul is what is judged at judgment day for what it does while dwelling in the physical body. The soul is invisible to the physical eye. The soul is what dies at the second death. But if one believes in Christ as his savior, that soul will never die even though the body dies.

Originally posted by Agerg
I see...so you believe that whenever you find yourself in paradise (whether you're among the lucky 144000 or not) after physical death here on earth, you will not be alive...maybe a zombie or something!

we believe that a great crowd, which no man will be able to number, along with untold
millions of persons who never had the chance to learn about Christ (an expression of
Gods justice) will live in paradise. The 144,000 are those who make up the Kingdom
government and will rule with Christ over this paradise. We believe that when you die,
you really do die, your body decomposes and you are conscience of nothing. You have
the hope of being resurrected at some point in the future, until that point, you are as I
described, dead.

Originally posted by RJHinds
I have already told you a couple of times. The soul is the real person, it is not the material body. I used many scriptural verses to prove it too. The body has no will, but the soul does. The soul is what is judged at judgment day for what it does while dwelling in the physical body. The soul is invisible to the physical eye. The soul is what dies at ...[text shortened]... But if one believes in Christ as his savior, that soul will never die even though the body dies.

the soul is the real person, why does the Bible therefore state that animals are souls? are they also real people?

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
We do not profess life after death in the sense that we do not profess that a part of us,
termed the soul, transcends death. I personally have no problem with that statement,
it seems lucid, unaffected and pertinent. If you wish to introduce all kinds of
clauses and provisos so that you may term it misleading or disingenuous, then once
again, be my guest.

We do not profess life after death in the sense that we do not profess that a part of us,
termed the soul, transcends death.

And as I keep telling you over and over, that does not answer the question of whether or not you profess life after death. (Full stop.) The answer to that question is yes, you do. Duh!