Cartoon tribute to Pope John Paul

Originally posted by DoctorScribbles
I was thus voted by a jury of five of the most intellectually capable people on the site.

It was a 3 to 2 vote. Not exactly a mandate.

Originally posted by no1marauder
I'm not sure Catholic doctrine "calls on people to 'spread the word'", though it would be expected that a Pope would.

EDIT: I took Rob to be saying that individual lay Catholics had some obligation under RCC doctrine to evangelize by word.

From the Catechism:

"900. Since, like all the faithful, lay Christians are entrusted by God with the apostolate by virtue of their Baptism and Confirmation, they have the right and duty, individually or grouped in associations, to work so that the divine message of salvation may be known and accepted by all men throughout the earth. This duty is the more pressing when it is only through them that men can hear the Gospel and know Christ. Their activity in ecclesial communities is so necessary that, for the most part, the apostolate of the pastors cannot be fully effective without it."

EDIT: "904. 'Christ . . . fulfills this prophetic office, not only by the hierarchy . . . but also by the laity. He accordingly both establishes them as witnesses and provides them with the sense of the faith [sensus fidei] and the grace of the word'[438]

To teach in order to lead others to faith is the task of every preacher and of each believer.[439]"

[438] LG 35.
[439] St. Thomas Aquinas, STh. III, 71, 4 ad 3.


Of course, as I pointed out, that doesn't mean that one must always use words.

Originally posted by lucifershammer
From the Catechism:

"900. Since, like all the faithful, lay Christians are entrusted by God with the apostolate by virtue of their Baptism and Confirmation, they have the right and [b]duty, individually or grouped in associations, to work so that the divine message of salvation may be known and accepted by all men throughout the earth ad 3.


Of course, as I pointed out, that doesn't mean that one must always use words.[/b]

Is what you just quoted infallible? Did Simon say it?

Originally posted by lucifershammer
From the Catechism:

"900. Since, like all the faithful, lay Christians are entrusted by God with the apostolate by virtue of their Baptism and Confirmation, [i/]they have the right and [b]duty, individually or grouped in associations, to work so that the divine message of salvation may be known and accepted by all men throughout the earth ad 3.


Of course, as I pointed out, that doesn't mean that one must always use words.[/b]

The phrase "individually or grouped in associations" still leaves the matter unclear to me. Like many points of RCC doctrine, it is plausible to adopt either view i.e. that lay persons are required to evangelize or not.

Originally posted by DoctorScribbles
Is what you just quoted infallible?

It hasn't been promulgated ex cathedra or expressly defined as a doctrine of the faith by an ecumenical council; but it is part of the constant teaching of the Church from the very beginning and it is what Christ Himself commissioned.

So, yes, it can be considered an infallible teaching.

Originally posted by no1marauder
The phrase "individually or grouped in associations" still leaves the matter unclear to me. Like many points of RCC doctrine, it is plausible to adopt either view i.e. that lay persons are required to evangelize or not.

I don't see how it is plausible to adopt the view that lay persons are not required to evangelise when the CCC clearly says they are. Whether they do it "individually or grouped in associations" is simply how they go about doing it (much like exercising alone vs. physical exercise in a team sport).

EDIT: I see the point you're making -- CCC 900 does not require every Catholic to direct evangelisation of another person that he is in contact with. But what do you make of CCC 904 (specifically the bit cited from Aquinas)?

Originally posted by rwingett
It was a 3 to 2 vote. Not exactly a mandate.

You meant 'unanimity' or 'unanimous decision'?

Originally posted by DoctorScribbles
I was thus voted by a jury of five of the most intellectually capable people on the site.

LMAO. Oh, the irony.

Originally posted by lucifershammer
I don't see how it is plausible to adopt the view that lay persons are not required to evangelise when the CCC clearly says they are. Whether they do it "individually or grouped in associations" is simply how they go about doing it (much like exercising alone vs. physical exercise in a team sport).

EDIT: I see the point you're making -- CCC ...[text shortened]... in contact with. But what do you make of CCC 904 (specifically the bit cited from Aquinas)?

That it can be read in conjunction with 905: Lay people also fulfill their prophetic mission by evangelization, "that is, the proclamation of Christ by word and the testimony of life."

And 900 doesn't use the word "evangelizing" which I am using in its ordinary sense as already stated. "to work so that the divine message of salvation may be known and accepted by all men throughout the earth" does not require each and every lay person to evangelize.

Originally posted by no1marauder
That it can be read in conjunction with 905: Lay people [b]also fulfill their prophetic mission by evangelization, "that is, the proclamation of Christ by word and the testimony of life."

And 900 doesn't use the word "evangelizing" which I am using in its ordinary sense as already stated. "to work so that the divine message of salvation m ...[text shortened]... y all men throughout the earth" does not require each and every lay person to evangelize.[/b]

But you would agree that CCC 900 at least requires Catholics to indirectly support evangelisation?

CCC 904 and 905 both cite LG 35:

"Christ, the great Prophet, who proclaimed the Kingdom of His Father both by the testimony of His life and the power of His words, continually fulfills His prophetic office until the complete manifestation of glory. He does this not only through the hierarchy who teach in His name and with His authority, but also through the laity whom He made His witnesses and to whom He gave understanding of the faith (sensu fidei) and an attractiveness in speech so that the power of the Gospel might shine forth in their daily social and family life. They conduct themselves as children of the promise, and thus strong in faith and in hope they make the most of the present, and with patience await the glory that is to come. Let them not, then, hide this hope in the depths of their hearts, but even in the program of their secular life let them express it by a continual conversion and by wrestling "against the world-rulers of this darkness, against the spiritual forces of wickedness.

Just as the sacraments of the New Law, by which the life and the apostolate of the faithful are nourished, prefigure a new heaven and a new earth, so too the laity go forth as powerful proclaimers of a faith in things to be hoped for, when they courageously join to their profession of faith a life springing from faith. This evangelization, that is, this announcing of Christ by a living testimony as well as by the spoken word, takes on a specific quality and a special force in that it is carried out in the ordinary surroundings of the world."


It's not an "either/or" situation -- it's a "both/and" situation. Further, CCC 905 cites Apostolicam Actuositatem:

"However, an apostolate of this kind does not consist only in the witness of one's way of life; a true apostle looks for opportunities to announce Christ by words addressed either to non-believers with a view to leading them to faith, or to the faithful with a view to instructing, strengthening, and encouraging them to a more fervent life...

Since, in our own times, new problems are arising and very serious errors are circulating which tend to undermine the foundations of religion, the moral order, and human society itself, this sacred synod earnestly exhorts laymen-each according to his own gifts of intelligence and learning-to be more diligent in doing what they can to explain, defend, and properly apply Christian principles to the problems of our era in accordance with the mind of the Church."

Earlier, AA says:

"Indeed, the organic union in this body and the structure of the members are so compact that the member who fails to make his proper contribution to the development of the Church must be said to be useful neither to the Church nor to himself."