24 Sep 05
1 edit
Originally posted by DoctorScribblesAs I said before it is better to wait for the official declaration. It has not been published yet. Discussing some unpublished document would mean speculation.
http://www.iht.com/articles/2005/09/21/news/pope.php
Ivanhoe and lucifershammer, are you in favor of this proposed ban on the "intrinsically disordered" and those with "perverse inclinations" entering the priesthood? Do you think it is "necessary to restore the church's credibility?"
A matter that could be discussed however is what kind of measures you would be inclined to take in order to avoid what happened. How are you, dear Doctor, going to prevent sexual abuse from taking place in the RC Church and when, God forbids, anything would happen despite your measures how would you proceed to handle things in an appropiate way ?
Which measures would you propose, dear doctor ?
24 Sep 05
Originally posted by ivanhoeYou were asked what you think , not to speculate on what the church will do or should do . Are you for it or against it ?
As I said before it is better to wait for the official declaration. It has not been published yet. Discussing some unpublished document would mean speculation.
A matter that could be discussed however is what kind of measures you would be inclined to take in order to avoid what happened. How are you, dear Doctor, going to prevent sexual abuse from taking ...[text shortened]... oceed to handle things in an appropiate way ?
Which measures would you propose, dear doctor ?
24 Sep 05
Originally posted by DoctorScribblesBut surely child rapists can be reabilitated? Given jobs as crossing gaurds, ice cream truck drivers, birthday clowns, etc... Burning seems a tad harsh.
Have the Pope start burning child molesting priests at the stake. The Church has certainly applied that punishment for lesser crimes.
25 Sep 05
Originally posted by ivanhoeI thought the Church took an approach of 'hate the sin, love the sinner.'
A matter that could be discussed however is what kind of measures you would be inclined to take in order to avoid what happened. How are you, dear Doctor, going to prevent sexual abuse from taking place in the RC Church and when, God forbids, anything would happen despite your measures how would you proceed to handle things in an appropiate way ?
If a person with homosexual inclinations solemnly vows to be celibate,
then why would the Church refuse him ordination?
And, make no mistake Ivanhoe: Homosexuality and child sexual abuse
have no statistical correlative relationship. So don't compare apples and
oranges.
Nemesio
25 Sep 05
Originally posted by ivanhoeThe obvious solution is to teach kids not to go around seducing priests. Seriously, though, the obvious solution is to allow priests to marry.
As I said before it is better to wait for the official declaration. It has not been published yet. Discussing some unpublished document would mean speculation.
A matter that could be discussed however is what kind of measures you would be inclined to take in order to avoid what happened. How are you, dear Doctor, going to prevent sexual abuse from taking ...[text shortened]... oceed to handle things in an appropiate way ?
Which measures would you propose, dear doctor ?
25 Sep 05
3 edits
Originally posted by bbarrWhat sort of polygamist are you? They are already married to the Church.
The obvious solution is to teach kids not to go around seducing priests. Seriously, though, the obvious solution is to allow priests to marry.
There you go, Ivanhoe, your example of bbarr promoting polygamy. Check that one off your list and you're down to beasts and dead people.
I see a free subscription in your future.
25 Sep 05
Originally posted by DoctorScribblesLMFAO
What sort of polygamist are you? They are already married to the Church.
There you go, Ivanhoe, your example of bbarr promoting polygamy. Check that one off your list and you're down to beasts and dead people.
I see a free subscription in your future.
25 Sep 05
1 edit
Originally posted by DoctorScribblesDr. Scribbles: "There you go, Ivanhoe, your example of bbarr promoting polygamy."
What sort of polygamist are you? They are already married to the Church.
There you go, Ivanhoe, your example of bbarr promoting polygamy. Check that one off your list and you're down to beasts and dead people.
I see a free subscription in your future.
I never claimed such a thing, therefore your reference cannot serve as an example of anything.
Your logic may be good, Dear Doctor, but you sure need working on your premises.
25 Sep 05
2 edits
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Question: What good does logic do for you if you mess up your premises ?
Answer: It makes your conclusions look so good.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Now Dear Doctor, wouldn't that be a perfect and interesting subject to present and discuss its scope and consequenses in one of your famous "Ivory Tower" threads ?
25 Sep 05
2 edits
Originally posted by DoctorScribblesIsn't life-long chastity often a sort of "perverse inclination" already? Certainly, it's "unnatural" in some robust sense. Mating is, for smart mammals like us, as natural as eating or drinking.
http://www.iht.com/articles/2005/09/21/news/pope.php
Ivanhoe and lucifershammer, are you in favor of this proposed ban on the "intrinsically disordered" and those with "perverse inclinations" entering the priesthood? Do you think it is "necessary to restore the church's credibility?"
I am not sure, however, that all practitioners of life-long chastity are "intrinsically disordered". The disorder, when it is a disorder (and I don't think it always is) strikes me as more extrinsic, a product of Catholic culture.
More importantly, if it is the case that making chastity mandatory casually contributes to child molestation--by denying that subset of priests who are liable to developing sexual attraction to children any alternative avenue of sexual expression--then I believe that the Vatican is morally obliged to make chastity optional for priests.
Compare: If it were mandated, as a policy, that all males who wanted to be teachers of primary school kids could never henceforth fornicate with adults of their own age, would this increase child abuse by such teachers? And would banning all gays from teaching solve the problem as effectively as letting such teachers fornicate freely with men or women of their own age?
25 Sep 05
Originally posted by PawnokeyholePawn: "..... that all practitioners of life-long chastity ...... a product of Catholic culture."
Isn't life-long chastity often a sort of "perverse inclination" already? Certainly, it's "unnatural" in some robust sense. Mating is, for smart mammals like us, as natural as eating or drinking.
I am not sure, however, that all practitioners of life-long chastity are "intrinsically disordered". The disorder, when it is a disorder (and I don ...[text shortened]... lem as effectively as letting such teachers fornicate freely with men or women of their own age?
.... and what about Buddhist monks ?