30 Mar 18
Originally posted by @thinkofoneOften they are working from Bibles that are multiple translations from the original.
The "logic" for many protestants seems to be:
Given:
1) My interpretation of the Bible is valid
2) The Bible is the inerrant word of God
3) Deviation from the inerrant word of God is heresy
Therefore:
1) My interpretation of the Bible is the inerrant word of God
2) Deviation from my interpretation of the Bible is heresy
Definition of ...[text shortened]... iefs or standards
Pasted from <https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/heresy>
Originally posted by @athousandyoungYeah, some "transalations" would be better described as "paraphrases".
Often they are working from Bibles that are multiple translations from the original.
Originally posted by @athousandyoungGRACE
How can someone full of God's grace be a sinner? You haven't addressed the Biblical passages I quoted in Debates. The idea that Mary was sinless is entirely Biblical. I gave you the passages that explain why. But you insist on ignoring what I wrote before and insisting that this idea is non-Biblical.
[quote] you need to explain...why Peter, the ...[text shortened]... you think any church which is not led by the Bishop of Rome is consistent with Matthew 16:18-19?
ɡrās
noun
(in Christian belief) the free and unmerited favor of God, as manifested in the salvation of sinners and the bestowal of blessings.
The bible claims God's "grace" has nothing to do with how good or righteous a person is, and that is God's grace that saves people full of sin. You're wrong about what "grace is.
Due to Catholicism, your foundation in your own Bible is poor.
Catholics merely *claim* to be the "true" Church, just like Jehovah's Witnesses claim be the "true" followers. or just like how Mormons claim they are. You can't all be right, but you can all be wrong.
31 Mar 18
Originally posted by @athousandyoung... Do the Orthodox follow the pope now?
Catholicism is not "schismatic". Even the Orthodox recognize the primacy of the Bishop of Rome.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ravenna_Document
Don't be ridiculous.
31 Mar 18
Originally posted by @vivifyGrace has absolutely nothing to do with the person? That's odd.
GRACE
ɡrās
noun
(in Christian belief) the free and [b]unmerited favor of God, as manifested in the salvation of sinners and the bestowal of blessings.
The bible claims God's "grace" has nothing to do with how good or righteous a person is, and that is God's grace that saves people full of sin. You're wrong about what "grace is.
Due to ...[text shortened]... ers. or just like how Mormons claim they are. You can't all be right, but you can all be wrong.[/b]
Who has more grace?
Mother Theresa
Or
A serial killer.
Originally posted by @philokaliaEphesians 2:8-9:
Grace has absolutely nothing to do with the person? That's odd.
Who has more grace?
Mother Theresa
Or
A serial killer.
"For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God—not by works, so that no one can boast."
Originally posted by @vivifyMary was blessed with unmerited grace from conception so how can she be a sinner? Nobody said she EARNED grace. God blessed her so Christ would not be born from a sinful woman.
GRACE
ɡrās
noun
(in Christian belief) the free and [b]unmerited favor of God, as manifested in the salvation of sinners and the bestowal of blessings.
The bible claims God's "grace" has nothing to do with how good or righteous a person is, and that is God's grace that saves people full of sin. You're wrong about what "grace is.
Due to ...[text shortened]... ers. or just like how Mormons claim they are. You can't all be right, but you can all be wrong.[/b]
Was Jesus a sinner too?
I notice you don’t say Protestants are wrong. Which Protestant cult brainwashed YOU as a child? Were they wrong too? You aren’t arguing like an atheist. You seem to take the Bible very seriously.
31 Mar 18
Originally posted by @philokaliaIs that what I wrote?
... Do the Orthodox follow the pope now?
Don't be ridiculous.
Do you disagree with the Ravenna document?
Originally posted by @vivifyMary wasn’t an Ephesian.
Ephesians 2:8-9:
"For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God—not by works, so that no one can boast."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epistle_to_the_Ephesians
The Epistle to the Ephesians, also called the Letter to the Ephesians and often shortened to Ephesians, is the tenth book of the New Testament.
https://www.catholic.com/magazine/print-edition/ephesians
Paul did not forget the Ephesians, and, from Rome, he wrote them this letter. Some scholars think that this was really a circular letter, addressed to all the churches--on the grounds that there are no personal references in it, nor does it have the opening greeting and the signoff which are so characteristic of the apostle's letters. Without the heading (which is not included in some codexes), this theory makes sense. However, the more common opinion, among ancient and modern scholars alike, is that the letter was addressed in the first instance to the Ephesians--not just because of the title it bears but because this is confirmed by Irenaeus, the Muratorian fragment, Clement of Alexandria, Tertullian and others.
31 Mar 18
Originally posted by @athousandyoungGrace has nothing to do with whether you're a sinner or not. That's the point. Mary being "full of Grace" in no way means she wasn't a sinner. The reason you don't know this is because Catholics consider their own doctrine more important than the Bible. This is what enables their teachings to end up being heretical.
Mary was blessed with unmerited grace from conception so how can she be a sinner? Nobody said she EARNED grace. God blessed her so Christ would not be born from a sinful woman.
Was Jesus a sinner too?
I notice you don’t say Protestants are wrong. Which Protestant cult brainwashed YOU as a child? Were they wrong too? You aren’t arguing like an atheist. You seem to take the Bible very seriously.
Originally posted by @athousandyoung
Mary wasn’t an Ephesian.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epistle_to_the_Ephesiansand often shortened to Ephesians, is the tenth book of the New Testament.
The Epistle [b]to the Ephesians, also called the Letter to the Ephesians
https://www.catholic.com/magazine/print-edition/ephesians[/b]That's idiotic. You think the concept of grace only applied to Ephesians? Does "thou shalt not murder" apply only to Jews?
Paul did not forget the Ephe ...[text shortened]... rmed by Irenaeus, the Muratorian fragment, Clement of Alexandria, Tertullian and others.
31 Mar 18
Originally posted by @vivifyWhat Biblical source do you have for your assertion? I’ve already demonstrated that you fallaciously apply Paul’s letter to Ephesus to everyone. So that won’t work. Got anything else?
Grace has nothing to do with whether you're a sinner or not. That's the point. Mary being "full of Grace" in no way means she wasn't a sinner. The reason you don't know this is because Catholics consider their own doctrine more important than the Bible. This is what enables their teachings to end up being heretical.
http://www.blessedquietness.com/journal/housechu/churchtraditioncosby.htm
So, in like manner, we Baptists have taken all the Scriptures concerning the Church (Proper) and the church (Local), and dumped them all into one basket, so to speak. We have failed to differentiate between the two, and have arrived at a similar misunderstanding.
Originally posted by @athousandyoungYour argument is since that one particular passage was addressed to Ephesians, that it applies to no one else. That's fallacious, rendering your argument invalid. You're a prime example of the fallacies Catholicism produces.
What Biblical source do you have for your assertion? I’ve already demonstrated that you fallaciously apply Paul’s letter to Ephesus to everyone. So that won’t work. Got anything else?
http://www.blessedquietness.com/journal/housechu/churchtraditioncosby.htm
So, in like manner, we Baptists have taken all the Scriptures concerning the C ...[text shortened]... ailed to differentiate between the two, and have arrived at a similar misunderstanding.
31 Mar 18
Originally posted by @vivifyI dont think either of you understand and appreciate what 'grace' means in the bible
Your argument is since that one particular passage was addressed to Ephesians, that it applies to no one else. That's fallacious, rendering your argument invalid. You're a prime example of what Catholicism produces.