Charlie Hebdo

Originally posted by FMF
Do you think the creators of Piss Christ and Life of Brian should have censored themselves or do you welcome their work as valid contributions to and reaffirmations of the principle of freedom of speech?

In my view Piss Christ is a somewhat revolting attempt at "shock" art and Life of Brian is cinematic comedic brilliance. Both should be uncensored as should all comment on religion or politics.

That Islam takes such a view of cartoons is reflective of it's medieval core value system which is still belong upheld by the central governing and opinion-leading, hub of the religion.

Originally posted by divegeester
In my view Piss Christ is a somewhat revolting attempt at "shock" art and Life of Brian is cinematic comedic brilliance. Both should be uncensored as should all comment on religion or politics.

That Islam takes such a view of cartoons is reflective of it's medieval core value system which is still belong upheld by the central governing and opinion-leading, hub of the religion.

Were Christians who were offended by Piss Christ and/or Life Of Brian also "medieval" in their thinking?

Originally posted by divegeester
In my view Piss Christ is a somewhat revolting attempt at "shock" art and [...] should be uncensored as should all comment on religion or politics.

Would you be inclined to agree with Great King Rat ~ and I am putting words in his mouth here based on the points he has put forward on this thread, and he can jump in of course and say I am misrepresenting him on "insult" and "freedom of speech" ~ and say that the creators of Piss Christ, in response to the criticism they got, should have found something even more insulting, even harsher, even more revolting to shock Christians with, BECAUSE they were insulted, and that that would have furthered the cause of free speech?

Great King Rat: if the above is not what you meant on this thread and not the approach to freedom of speech that you advocate, please set me straight.

Originally posted by FMF
My question was: Do you fully support the right of people to insult you and to blaspheme what you believe in?

I don't support them but I don't think they should be outlawed either.

God is all powerful, and to think he needs man to execute vengeance for him is the ultimate insult to such a God. In a way, those same Muslims blaspheme their god in such a way.

Vengence is mine, I will repay says the Lord.

Originally posted by FMF
Do you think the creators of Piss Christ and Life of Brian should have censored themselves or do you welcome their work as valid contributions to and reaffirmations of the principle of freedom of speech?

People should be allowed to express what they believe even if it offends.

Again, Christians follow after a man who essentially pissed off and offended pretty much every religious leader within ear shot, then he did the same with the political leaders as well.

There is an old saying, if you want to know who runs things, just find out who you are not allowed to insult or critique.

Originally posted by whodey
[b]I don't support them but I don't think they should be outlawed either./b]

Whodey, this is my question: Do you fully support the right of people to insult you and to blaspheme what you believe in?

You don't support their right?

Originally posted by whodey
People should be allowed to express what they believe even if it offends.

Why did you imply that the Vatican didn't protest that Piss Christ and Life of Brian was offensive?

Originally posted by whodey
There is an old saying, if you want to know who runs things, just find out who you are not allowed to insult or critique.

But you are allowed to insult the sacred things of both Christian and Muslim, both in France and in your country, so what is your point? Who, according to your "if you want to know who runs things, just find out who you are not allowed to insult" thing [1] runs things because [2] you are not allowed to insult them? What are you on about?

Originally posted by FMF
Were Christians who were offended by Piss Christ and/or Life Of Brian also "medieval" in their thinking?

"Medieval core value system"

I don't think getting offened is "medieval" just lazy and weak. The offended can state their case and move on.

Originally posted by whodey
God is all powerful, and to think he needs man to execute vengeance for him is the ultimate insult to such a God

Are you talking about the "God of Abraham" as depicted in the OT?

Originally posted by FMF
Would you be inclined to agree with Great King Rat ~ and I am putting words in his mouth here based on the points he has put forward on this thread, and he can jump in of course and say I am misrepresenting him on "insult" and "freedom of speech" ~ and say that the creators of Piss Christ, in response to the criticism they got, should have found something even m ...[text shortened]... s with, BECAUSE they were insulted, and that that would have furthered the cause of free speech?

If the motive was "free speech" then I'd say yes go for it. I suspect it wasn't though.

Originally posted by divegeester
"Medieval core value system"

I don't think getting offened is "medieval" just lazy and weak. The offended can state their case and move on.

So you are talking about the "Medieval core value system" of the gunmen, mass murderers, suicide bombers, psychotic criminals, etc. rather than Muslims in general, who ~ aside from a few thousand here and there ~ felt the offence that they felt and, for all intents and purposes, moved on?

Originally posted by divegeester
If the motive was "free speech" then I'd say yes go for it. I suspect it wasn't though.

Don't you think the motivation for Piss Christ and the CH cartoons boiled down to the same thing: offend religious people because one can?

Originally posted by FMF
So you are talking about the "Medieval core value system" of the gunmen, mass murderers, suicide bombers, psychotic criminals, etc. rather than Muslims in general, who ~ aside from a few thousand here and there ~ felt the offence that they felt and, for all intents and purposes, moved on?

I'm referring to the social, spiritual and religious hub that drives extremist Islamic thinking and behaviour.

Originally posted by FMF
Don't you think the motivation for Piss Christ and the CH cartoons boiled down to the same thing: offend religious people because one can?

I don't know enough about the PC artist to really say but I suspect attention grabbing through notoriety was the primary motive.