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SecondSon,
Here is a very concise explanation of the problem of rapture.
Some Bible students argued that the entire church is raptured pre-tribulation.
And they have their verses - good ones often.
Some other Bible students argued that the opposite was true. The entire church is raptured post-tribulation. They also have verses. Sometimes good ones.
Both schools are partially correct. Neither is completely correct. And neither can afford to ignore the points of the other.
I believe in the latter times God has revealed what should have been obvious. The Bible is warning that part of the entire church is raptured before the tribulation and part will have to pass THROUGH the great tribulation and be raptured latter.
And the reason for this should be obvious - READINESS, WATCHFULNESS.
The former two positions are based on stretching Justification by Faith over the matter of rapture. But careful examination of the verses show that readiness and watchfulness are the key.
04 Dec 18
@sonship saidThe Rapture isn't worth arguing about.
SecondSon,
Here is a very concise explanation of the problem of rapture.
Some Bible students argued that the entire church is raptured pre-tribulation.
And they have their verses - good ones often.
Some other Bible students argued that the opposite was true. The entire church is raptured post-tribulation. They also have verses. Sometimes good ones.
Both sc ...[text shortened]... of rapture. But careful examination of the verses show that readiness and watchfulness are the key.
I have seen arguments about pre-tribulation, post-tribulation, mid-tribulation, and
one who claimed it was the sinners taken and the righteous left behind.
Bottom line it will not matter if you are not right with God today and God calls
you home before it happens.
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When we are saved, we are saved.
To be precise.
The New Testament says I was saved, I am being saved, and I will be saved.
The three aspects of being saved relate to the three parts of our being - spirit and soul and body.
To be saved involves regeneration in the spirit.
Then to be being saved involves transformation of the soul.
Then to be saved in the future involves transfiguration of the body.
Regeneration - transformation - transfiguration.
Born again - sanctification - the redemption of the body.
I am saved.
I am in the process of being saved.
In the future I will be saved.
This is more complicated then what we usually speak. But sometimes we have to be more precise.
Salvation is applied to all three parts of our being.
You will never be more saved tomorrow than you are now and neither will anyone else it is the Lord’s doing not us.
This is true concerning the gift of eternal life and eternal redemption.
This is definitely not true concerning sanctification.
Unless we are neglecting the truth of sanctification we have to say transformation is saving us by making us more and more into the image of Christ.
And the Lord is the Spirit, and where the SPirit of the Lord is there is freedom.
But we all with unveiled face, beholding and reflecting like a mirror the glory of the Lord, are being TRANSFORMED into the same image from glory to glory even as from the Lord Spirit." (2 Cor. 3:17,18)
You see the transformation "from glory to glory" is an operation saving us more and more into the same image of Christ within.
Here again transformation by the renewing of the mind is a life long process more and more saving us into Christ likeness.
And do not be fashioned according to this age, but be transformed by the renewing of the mind that you may prove what the will of God is, that which is good and well pleasing and perfect." (Rom. 12:2)
Transformation from one degree of expression to another degree of expression is saving us.
Transformation by the renewing of the mind in its thinking is saving us from the fashion of the world. And it more and more proves the will of God in us.
So you see, our growth in the divine life is a SAVING by way of process.
We are saved by grace not by works!
Let me clarify about the church in Philadelphia was promised a reward of rapture.
It is a reward but it is for being NORMAL. In other words they only did what they were expected to do. They did not do a work above some standard. They only lived UP to the standard.
To live UP to that standard is to be an overcomer. And that has reward. It is the reward of enjoying Christ in the most normal way.
Look, Jesus said to some, "You have the reward already, Just keep it. You have the crown of reward already. Just don't let anyone deprive you of it."
Do not cast away therefore your boldness, which has great reward." (Hebrews 10:35)
So we must recognize that there is distinction from justification by faith the pursuing of the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus.
I pursue towards the goal for the prize to which God in Christ Jesus has called me upward. (Phil. 3:14)
Paul was surely saved forever. Yet he lived so as to pursue a prize, a reward.
Early rapture is the same.
This does not mean one has to have a doctrine of pre-tribulation rapture. It only means one LIVES in Christ as if he takes seriously that Christ could come upon him at any time.
Some who have a doctrine of pre-tribulation rapture will be left behind for not learning to live regularly according to their belief.
And some who expected to pass through the tribulation will be rewarded in that sense and kept out of it.
Now there are those who claim the name but reject the Lord. They join in the services stand up in prayer, yet they don’t know the Lord and their lives reflect that, there is no difference between them and anyone who doesn’t know the Lord. These people are poisonous examples of Christ hidding truth from a dying world.
No comment at the moment. It is true.
If they turn to the Lord after that day they will have to deal with what is about to happen on the earth. Those that turn to the Lord still can until the Lord says it is finished!
We'll speak more on this perhaps latter. Thanks.
@kellyjay saidsonship warned you [on page 1] that if Christians are not clamouring to read books by men like Watchmen Nee and Witness Lee now, he believes those books will be in high demand at around the time of "the Rapture". May I ask, have you read books by Watchmen Nee and Witness Lee, and if not, do you expect to be clamouring for them one day?
The Rapture isn't worth arguing about.
I have seen arguments about pre-tribulation, post-tribulation, mid-tribulation, andone who claimed it was the sinners taken and the righteous left behind.
Bottom line it will not matter if you are not right with God today and God calls
you home before it happens.
04 Dec 18
@secondson saidStill smarting from my instruction on Mathew I see.
According to what you've posted it doesn't appear you're "open to discussing" anything.
At best you're a wishy washy Christian that doesn't believe what the scriptures say.
04 Dec 18
@sonship saidI thought you were “finished”?
SecondSon,
Here is a very concise explanation of the problem of rapture.
Some Bible students argued that the entire church is raptured pre-tribulation.
And they have their verses - good ones often.
Some other Bible students argued that the opposite was true. The entire church is raptured post-tribulation. They also have verses. Sometimes good ones.
Both sc ...[text shortened]... of rapture. But careful examination of the verses show that readiness and watchfulness are the key.
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I believe that during the time of the great tribulation, high quality Christian books will be in greater demand.
If the Lord tarries longer other faithful authors will be added to the seers who are sought out.
What we do not know is if, given the power of Antichrist's influence, Bibles and spiritual books of good quality will be available.
During the last three and one half years of this age Antichrist will put down all objects of worship. He will proclaim himself as god from the temple in Jerusalem.
" ... the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of perdition,
Who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or an object of worship, so that he sits in the temple of God, setting himself forth, saying that he is God." (1 Thess. 4b)
Will the saints be able to lay hold of Bibles? Will he have all Bibles burned and outlawed? I do not know. But I do not want to be here to find out.
It is always good to store up God's word in our hearts. But it is even more important as we move towards the end of this age. We do well to store up the word of God by reading it, praying it, singing it, studying it, petitioning according to it, musing on it, and reading again.
For times are coming in which we do not know how vehemently the secular world will oppose seeking God or His word.
Expected pushback from someone: - "All this stuff already happened in the past."
04 Dec 18
@fmf saidI've read some years ago, but recall only a little about them. I'm not a fan of following
sonship warned you [on page 1] that if Christians are not clamouring to read books by men like Watchmen Nee and Witness Lee now, he believes those books will be in high demand at around the time of "the Rapture". May I ask, have you read books by Watchmen Nee and Witness Lee, and if not, do you expect to be clamouring for them one day?
hard after someone else' experiences with the Lord. We can glean from them yes,
but why go to someone else when God wants us to learn from Him directly?
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The Rapture isn't worth arguing about.
I have seen arguments about pre-tribulation, post-tribulation, mid-tribulation, and
It is not worthy forming divisions about. But do you wish for the Lord to return? Do you wish for Him to come and establish His kingdom on the earth?
If you care then you should care that there be something to woo Him and give Him the incentive to rapture.
Rapture is a strategic victory in the spiritual warfare. You may have gotten the impression that rapture only means get out of some trouble. Far from this is the case.
Rapture is a strategic advantage gained over the enemies of God bring His kingdom closer. This is definitely seen in Revelation 12.
If you care for the winning of the spiritual warfare then you should care about rapture.
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one who claimed it was the sinners taken and the righteous left behind.
I find that one a bit silly. But you cannot fight a bad teaching with another bad teaching. And some reactionary ideas like this are doing that.
They are attempting to cure a problem. But the medicine offered is sometimes worse.
Bottom line it will not matter if you are not right with God today and God calls
you home before it happens.
We should be obedient to the Lord. We must learn to trust and obey the Lord.
Now the Lord Jesus said this:
"But be watchful at every time, beseeching that you would prevail to escape these things which are about to happen and stand before the Son of Man." (Luke 21:36)
To watch and beseech the Lord that we be counted worthy to escape the things coming is therefore the reaction of obedience to Christ's command.
I will not be nonchalant about this for He commanded that we watch and pray to prevail and escape. So to obey the Lord Jesus we should respond in the manner He commanded.
So rapture is not only a strategic victory in the spiritual warfare hastening the coming of the kingdom, but rapture is the result of OBEDIENCE to His command in Luke 21:36.