- Joined
- 31 May 06
- Moves
- 1795
27 Jun 13
Originally posted by Rajk999Ok. Will do.
How about starting another thread as we are already poluting galvestons thread. I will participate and answer the question and it will give some of the other Christians who you say dont agree with what i say a chance to respond there.
27 Jun 13
Originally posted by divegeesterThere is Gods grace of which nobody is worthy as you correctly stated above. Gods grace is the act of sending his Son to die for mans sins.
No one is worthy, all have fallen short...
Yes, I believe I read that somewhere.
Then there is worthy of entering into the Kingdom of God. Christ said that there would be those who are worthy to enter.
He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me. And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me.
(Mat 10:37-38)
But they which shall be accounted worthy to obtain that world, and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry, nor are given in marriage: (Luk 20:35)
Rev_3:4 Thou hast a few names even in Sardis which have not defiled their garments; and they shall walk with me in white: for they are worthy.
So that we ourselves glory in you in the churches of God for your patience and faith in all your persecutions and tribulations that ye endure: Which is a manifest token of the righteous judgment of God, that ye may be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which ye also suffer: Seeing it is a righteous thing with God to recompense tribulation to them that trouble you; (2Th 1:4-6)
- Joined
- 08 Dec 04
- Moves
- 100919
27 Jun 13
Originally posted by Rajk999So... what part of my post did you disagree with? I'm not clear on what you are trying to say in your rant...
And the self-delusion of modern Christianity continues. It does not take much Bible knowledge to see that that message is 90% Fabricated. What does Christ actually say?
[i] He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him. ... ...[text shortened]... are not of the Truth.
[b]Joh 18:37 .. Every one that is of the truth heareth my voice. [/b]
The verses you quote are true, but where do they disagree with my post?
28 Jun 13
Originally posted by galveston75Obviously you know that Jesus prayed to the Father and Jesus gave his disciples an example prayer that started with "Our Father in heaven... But jesus also said the following:
Ok. Which do you pray to for what you are praying about? Is one able to do something the other can't?
And again who did Jesus himself say to pray too?
Jesus said to Thomas, “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me.
And whatever you ask in My name, that I will do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son.
(John 14:6, 13 NKJV)
Later Jesus said the following to His disciples:
In that day you will ask in My name, and I do not say to you that I shall pray the Father for you; for the Father Himself loves you, because you have loved Me, and have believed that I came forth from God.
(John 16:26-27 NKJV)
HalleluYah !!! Praise the LORD! Glory be to God! Holy! Holy! Holy!
The Instructor
28 Jun 13
Originally posted by RJHindsSo exactly whay is your point here because the two scriptures you posted prove there is no trinity by every word in them.
Obviously you know that Jesus prayed to the Father and Jesus gave his disciples an example prayer that started with "Our Father in heaven... But jesus also said the following:
Jesus said to Thomas, [b]“I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me.
And whatever you ask in My name, that I will do, that the Father ma ...[text shortened]... 7 NKJV)
HalleluYah !!! Praise the LORD! Glory be to God! Holy! Holy! Holy!
The Instructor
Are you serious that you can't see that?
Lets see: Jesus said no one goes to the Father except thru him/Jesus.
So Jesus is called the word or spokesman for his father and he said to pray thru him in order for his Father to hear.
Where in the world do you get that they are the same person out of this?
If Jesus were God, why say this? Why not just cut to the chase and say" pray to me"? "I'm God and I'm equal to the other two, so just pray to me and I"ll take care of it".
No where did Jesus even hint of any human doing such a thing or that Jesus said to pray to him.....ONLY pray THROUGH him to his Father for all the future to come, not just then.
28 Jun 13
1 edit
Originally posted by galveston75You should go see a doctor about your amnesia problem. Let me say again that I have never claimed Jesus is the same person as the Father. They are two distinct persons. What I have said Jesus is the Son of God, which makes Him spiritually of the same essence as the Father and the fullness of the Godhead dwells in Jesus bodily. So Jesus is the way God as the Son is able to appear to man and also be the eternal sacrifice for all our sins. If Jesus was only a man, His sacrifice would not be eternal and only good for the sins of one man. Then what about the rest of us sinners?
So exactly whay is your point here because the two scriptures you posted prove there is no trinity by every word in them.
Are you serious that you can't see that?
Lets see: Jesus said no one goes to the Father except thru him/Jesus.
So Jesus is called the word or spokesman for his father and he said to pray thru him in order for his Father to he o him.....ONLY pray THROUGH him to his Father for all the future to come, not just then.
You must also remember that the Son no longer had the glory that He had in the beginning with the Father, but had humbled Himself under the Father to be manifested in the flesh so He could be the sacrifice for all mankind. After His resurrection He was given all authority and so He had the authority to answer prayers in His name.
The Instructor
28 Jun 13
Originally posted by RJHindsHumm. Jesus cleary said to pray thru him to his "Father". I think that's pretty clear who we are actully supposed to pray to. Jesus never once said to pray to him EVER, but only "through" him.
You should go see a doctor about your amnesia problem. Let me say again that I have never claimed Jesus is the same person as the Father. They are two distinct persons. What I have said Jesus is the Son of God, which makes Him spiritually of the same essence as the Father and the fullness of the Godhead dwells in Jesus bodily. So Jesus is the way God as ...[text shortened]... given all authority and so He had the authority to answer prayers in His name.
The Instructor
Your description of them being distinct just doesn't fly. You say they are two distinct person just now but then you go off on this same essance thing. Just isn't what the Bible says and not even with this the description here:
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
For other uses, see Distinction (disambiguation).
Two or more things are distinct if no two of them are the same thing. In mathematics, two things are called distinct if they are not equal. In physics two things are distinct if they cannot be mapped to each other.[1]
dis·tinct
[dih-stingkt] Show IPA
adjective
1.
distinguished as not being the same; not identical; separate (sometimes followed by from ): His private and public lives are distinct.
2.
different in nature or quality; dissimilar (sometimes followed by from ): Gold is distinct from iron.
3.
clear to the senses or intellect; plain; unmistakable: The ship appeared as a distinct silhouette.
4.
distinguishing or perceiving clearly: distinct vision.
5.
unquestionably exceptional or notable: a distinct honor.
Would you like more examples of this word?
- Joined
- 03 Jan 13
- Moves
- 13080
28 Jun 13
1 edit
Originally posted by vistesd
My points, in brief (since you seem not to have read very carefully, and want brevity) are:
1. Experiences cannot be taken as self-validating of their own content without reasoned, objective examination.
2. Experiences whose content and effect are beautiful and/or powerfully evocative can (note that I didn't say anything like "necessarily do" ) seduc could not possibly take anything that I wrote as reflecting on that particular experience.
My points, in brief (since you seem not to have read very carefully, and want brevity) are:
Guilty as charged. I honed in, here and there, skimmed over other parts.
1. Experiences cannot be taken as self-validating of their own content without reasoned, objective examination.
I like you vistesd. You're so obviously smarter than me that I feel I can relax around you. No need to compete at all.
Now is this statement above (#1) your experience ?
2. Experiences whose content and effect are beautiful and/or powerfully evocative can (note that I didn't say anything like "necessarily do" ) seduce our assent to their content (e.g., with respect to a transcendant source) just as well as any other--and so must also be examined rationally.
Concerning my one communicated experience is there something you would like to examine rationally about it ?
I may not be able to help at all. But what would it be ?
3. "Bait and switch" refers to someone baiting you and then switching on you, not you switching anything. (Maybe you never heard the phrase before.)
I think you have more formal education than I.
Look, I'm feeling rather humble today. Better take advantage of it while it lasts.
4. I think I made it perfectly clear that the only reason I chose not to read your shared experience is so that you could not possibly take anything that I wrote as reflecting on that particular experience.
I do not well in digesting some of your posts. And when I do not I say to myself, "This is probably exactly how I read to a lot of other people."
I think my wife's testimony has something to do with God's foreknowledge. He knew what was going to happen.
Now this alone is fascinating in this instance to me for two reasons:
1.) She was not at all eager to find a husband.
2.) I didn't want anybody telling me who I should marry. I was very guarded about it and insisted on my choice. I had little regard to "match-makers."
Sometimes I would do the opposite of what some well meaning people suggested. So to my realization I really had my choice and mine alone.
So after being married for awhile when she gave me this testimony (that God had shown her who she was going to marry) I felt awed by the mysterious combination of my own freedom of will and choice and the foreknowledge of God.
This may have nothing to do with what you're interested in. But thanks for clarifying for me your post.
Sorry if my response was overly grumpy and defensive.
28 Jun 13
Originally posted by KellyJayOk. Still not making sense. So we pray thru Jesus to his Father or we pray to Jesus as he is the Father?
Father God, and Jesus and the Father are One...Jesus is our propitiation
and our intercessor, and when we pray to the Father we do it in Jesus’
name.
Kelly
You see you can't have it both ways.
If Jesus were the same as his Father because you just said they are ONE and according to your doctrine which states all three are equal and all knowing, then Jesus would have told his followers something along these lines when he told them how to pray: "When you pray, ask me as I am also my Father and we will answer your prayers because we are the same, and it will be given to you!"
Am I wrong?