controversies within christianity

Originally posted by FMF
If you ever saying anything here that gives me a reason to think that God has revealed Himself to you, I will let you know.

Ditto

Originally posted by josephw
Ditto

But, since escaping from Christianity, I have never claimed ~ and do not claim ~ that God has revealed Himself to me. You are the one making the farfetched assertions based on circular logic. 😀

Originally posted by FMF
But, since escaping from Christianity, I have never claimed ~ and do not claim ~ that God has revealed Himself to me. You are the one making the farfetched assertions based on circular logic. 😀

God has revealed Himself to me. Is there any other way to know God?

What you are misunderstanding is how God has revealed Himself to me.

You probably think I hear God's audible voice. Some make the claim. They are probably egocentric at minimum.

That's not how it works. Would you agree that God doesn't speak audibly to believers today? Would you be willing to believe that God has spoken audibly to a select few in the past?

Is the only way you could ever believe is if you heard God's audible voice speaking directly to you?

It will never happen. Not in this life. There's no need.

Originally posted by josephw
God has revealed Himself to me. Is there any other way to know God?

What you are misunderstanding is how God has revealed Himself to me.

You probably think I hear God's audible voice. Some make the claim. They are probably egocentric at minimum.

That's not how it works. Would you agree that God doesn't speak audibly to believers today? Would you be ...[text shortened]... ible voice speaking directly to you?

It will never happen. Not in this life. There's no need.

The way you are talking, I don't think you have any idea how to convince anyone of anything. 😀

Originally posted by FMF
If you ever saying anything here that gives me a reason to think that God has revealed Himself to you, I will let you know.

A shop keeper is mulling over his books crunching the numbers to see if he's made a profit for the month.
He hears a voice (not his own) clearly telling him: "Sell the shop."
He's alone in the room and fears he might be going insane.
But the voice restates the direction: "Sell the shop."
So the merchant puts his shop up for sale, quickly finding a buyer.
The voice visits him again upon completion of the sale.
"Go to Las Vegas."
The former shop keeper had never been to Vegas, didn't have any relations there, but felt compelled nonetheless.
He finds himself at the blackjack table in due order.
Again, the voice:
"Bet it all on the next hand."
To himself, he's thinking 'this is $3 million, all that I have from selling the shop!'
The voice is insistent:
"Bet it all, this next hand."
The former merchant draws two face cards to the dealer's 19.
'Whew!' the man thinks to himself, 'I just might make this work!'
"Draw again," the voice commands him.
'What?!? I've got 20, already beat the dealer!'
"Draw again," the voice now more insistent.
The man draws again; ace.
The voice: "Un-effing-believable!"

Originally posted by FreakyKBH
A shop keeper is mulling over his books crunching the numbers to see if he's made a profit for the month.
He hears a voice (not his own) clearly telling him: "Sell the shop."
He's alone in the room and fears he might be going insane.
But the voice restates the direction: "Sell the shop."
So the merchant puts his shop up for sale, quickly finding a buye ...[text shortened]... n," the voice now more insistent.
The man draws again; ace.
The voice: "Un-effing-believable!"

Listen to my voice. Sell your "shop" or whatever else you have and send the money to my Nigerian bank account. I will bet it on things for you. 😀

Originally posted by josephw
God has revealed Himself to me. Is there any other way to know God?

What you are misunderstanding is how God has revealed Himself to me.

You probably think I hear God's audible voice. Some make the claim. They are probably egocentric at minimum.

That's not how it works. Would you agree that God doesn't speak audibly to believers today? Would you be ...[text shortened]... ible voice speaking directly to you?

It will never happen. Not in this life. There's no need.

I think there is no other way than direct revelation.

"Revelation may be defined as the communication of some truth by God to a rational creature through means which are beyond the ordinary course of nature."

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/13001a.htm

Given that jabbering on this forum is an example of the ordinary course of nature, truth will not flow from one to another in this forum, without divine intervention that is outside the ordinary jabbering.

And such truths will only be revealed to rational creatures. 🙂

Originally posted by FMF
The way you are talking, I don't think you have any idea how to convince anyone of anything. 😀

And those who are most in the practice of knowing how to convince others are those who sell snake oil, by necessity.

Originally posted by JS357
"Revelation may be defined as the communication of some truth by God to a rational creature through means which are beyond the ordinary course of nature."

Like telepathy? Hmmm?

Originally posted by FMF
The way you are talking, I don't think you have any idea how to convince anyone of anything. 😀

Probably not, but neither do you.

There might be a chance if you knew how to stay on topic for more than one post. 😛

Originally posted by JS357
I think there is no other way than direct revelation.

"In the beginning God created..."

That's as direct as it's going to get for anyone in this world today. We have God's Word in full and complete.

No one will be able to claim ignorance.

Originally posted by FMF
If you ever saying anything here that gives me a reason to think that God has revealed Himself to you, I will let you know.

If or when God ever reveals Himself to you, you will be in a position to understand that hell is the default destination for people who don't want to go anywhere.

If you don't want Him in your life (or to reveal anything to you) He will respect your wishes and stay out of your way, and not reveal much of anything to you.

Originally posted by lemon lime
If or when God ever reveals Himself to you, you will be in a position to understand that hell is the default destination for people who don't want to go anywhere.

If you don't want Him in your life (or to reveal anything to you) He will respect your wishes and stay out of your way, and not reveal much of anything to you.

Yes I am familiar with Christian ideology. It would obviously be compelling if God were to reveal Himself and communicate His wishes to us all. I don't think it's happened, so your anthropocentric references to Him and your talk of "Hell" does not mean much to me personally, except to serve as a reminder of your Christian ideology... which I am already familiar with ~ by way of personal experience.

Originally posted by josephw
"In the beginning God created..."

That's as direct as it's going to get for anyone in this world today. We have God's Word in full and complete.

No one will be able to claim ignorance.

Well to you and Suzianne, (telepathy comment) I don't think the direct revelation of God's truth that is spoken of here can be *like* anything else we encounter in our daily lives, after all, the more common a thing is, the more it would be within the ordinary course of nature. That's what the natural sciences study -- the regularities of our experience. The one-off, personal-experience things are not going to get such attention, real as they might be.

I can imagine heaven having its own nature, and if some residents were motivated, they would become its scientists.

Originally posted by FMF
Yes I am familiar with Christian ideology. It would obviously be compelling if God were to reveal Himself and communicate His wishes to us all. I don't think it's happened, so your anthropocentric references to Him and your talk of "Hell" does not mean much to me personally, except to serve as a reminder of your Christian ideology... which I am already familiar with ~ by way of personal experience.

Yes I am familiar with Christian ideology.

Being familiar with Christian ideology doesn't mean you are or were a Christian... it simply means you are familiar with Christian ideology.


If I was familiar with Islamic ideology would this mean I am (or was) an Islamist?

If I was familiar with aviation history would this mean I was an airplane?

If you are familiar with what goes into making a bag of nuts would this mean you are a nut? It doesn't necessarily mean you aren't a nut, but it wouldn't necessarily mean you are... a nut.