Creation Answer Book

Originally posted by RJHinds
But the FSM was made up by an atheist so he could start his own religion,
wasn't it? 😀

Correct.

Originally posted by Nicksten
Correction: It is blatantly and disrespectfully mocking Creationism (Christianity)
Denying something non-existent is not hate - you can not hate something which isn't there.

Correction: It is blatantly and disrespectfully mocking Creationism (Christianity)

One person's parody is another person's mockery.

Denying something non-existent is not hate - you can not hate something which isn't there.

People can hate in error. In fact, I think a Christian would say that many people who hate God are hating in error -- they have an incorrect understanding of God. They hate a quality of God they think is there, yet God exists. It is like hating your father for making you move to another state, thinking he is being selfish, when he is really in the witness protection program and is protecting his family.

Originally posted by Nicksten
Correct.

I didn't notice this:

Correction: It is blatantly and disrespectfully mocking Creationism (Christianity)

It is refreshing to see someone admit the home of ID is creationism and the home of creationism is Christianity. In the Kitzmiller case, this connection was unsuccessfully denied. Maybe in the next ID case you can testify to the fact that rank and file Christians equate ID and Christian creationism.

Here's something to consider:

"The "Flying Spaghetti Monster" first appeared in a satirical open letter written by Bobby Henderson in 2005, protesting the decision by the Kansas State Board of Education to permit the teaching of intelligent design as an alternative to evolution in public school science classes.[3]"
(Wikipedia)

So a debate point is earned by you, for the anti-ID side.

Originally posted by JS357
[b]Correction: It is blatantly and disrespectfully mocking Creationism (Christianity)

One person's parody is another person's mockery.

Denying something non-existent is not hate - you can not hate something which isn't there.

People can hate in error. In fact, I think a Christian would say that many people who hate God are hating in error - ...[text shortened]... ng selfish, when he is really in the witness protection program and is protecting his family.[/b]

This is the first time I have noticed any hatred coming from you for
Christianity. In the past you seemed to have taken a neutral position
and even seemed at times to be leaning toward Christianity. What
has happened that has brought on this attitude you have now?

Originally posted by finnegan
okay. 😛

I'm sorry, but I take a lot of time and care over my words and I don't like being told that I am being lazy
and talking twaddle for using terms in ways that are in common use, (for which I have evidence and sources),
and in particular by someone being condescending and pretentious to me at the same time.

The root of gnostic is the Latin Gnosis, which relates to knowledge.
From Wiki http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gnosis
"Gnosis is the common Greek noun for knowledge (in the nominative case γνῶσις f.). In the context of the English
language gnosis generally refers to the word's meaning within the spheres of Christian mysticism, Mystery religions
and Gnosticism where it signifies 'spiritual knowledge' in the sense of mystical enlightenment."

Thus using Gnostic and Agnostic as relating to the knowledge (or absence of knowledge) of god or gods is both justified and
reasonable and also not an invention by me as it's in common use and is a perfectly valid and understandable use of the terms.

If you want to discuss the use of words and their meanings then I am more than willing to discuss it.
But if you open up by being condescending and insulting while also being trivially demonstrably wrong then yes,
you can shove it.

Otherwise, happy debating.

Originally posted by Nicksten
Correction: It is blatantly and disrespectfully mocking Creationism (Christianity)
Denying something non-existent is not hate - you can not hate something which isn't there.

Most creationists aren't Christian, most creationists belong to eastern faiths.
And while the FSM does indeed mock Christians, it mocks any and all faiths equally as much.

Also, your beliefs (particularly creationists) are ridiculous and in need of being ridiculed.
So I see no issue with the FSM fulfilling it's point, by mocking your beliefs.

Originally posted by JS357
[b]Correction: It is blatantly and disrespectfully mocking Creationism (Christianity)

One person's parody is another person's mockery.

Denying something non-existent is not hate - you can not hate something which isn't there.

People can hate in error. In fact, I think a Christian would say that many people who hate God are hating in error - ...[text shortened]... ng selfish, when he is really in the witness protection program and is protecting his family.[/b]

LOL

Originally posted by Nicksten
Correct.

Wrong, it's posted by RJHinds which is your biggest clue that this is in fact false. ;-p

Originally posted by JS357
I didn't notice this:

[b]Correction: It is blatantly and disrespectfully mocking Creationism (Christianity)

It is refreshing to see someone admit the home of ID is creationism and the home of creationism is Christianity. In the Kitzmiller case, this connection was unsuccessfully denied. Maybe in the next ID case you can testify to the fact that rank ...[text shortened]... nce classes.[3]"
(Wikipedia)

So a debate point is earned by you, for the anti-ID side.[/b]

Thank you.

Originally posted by googlefudge
Most creationists aren't Christian, most creationists belong to eastern faiths.
And while the FSM does indeed mock Christians, it mocks any and all faiths equally as much.

Also, your beliefs (particularly creationists) are ridiculous and in need of being ridiculed.
So I see no issue with the FSM fulfilling it's point, by mocking your beliefs.

The FSM mocks Christianity more and none of the sources found on the internet proves it differently.

My beliefs are weighed up incorrectly with your beliefs thus mine seems ridiculous, but only to a mind like yours. You can not compare, as your beliefs from my point of view also is ridiculous. What do I care, what do you care?? Really?

The only thing the FSM is fulfilling, is the need for atheists to have a religion - a laughable one by the way, but it is there, at the cost of showing the real intellect some people have that claims to have knowledge and speak big words.

Edit: And it is the same people that want to teach false evolution in our schools. First it was evolution, now it is the FSM....bloody hell, what next?

Originally posted by Nicksten
The FSM mocks Christianity more and none of the sources found on the internet proves it differently.

My beliefs are weighed up incorrectly with your beliefs thus mine seems ridiculous, but only to a mind like yours. You can not compare, as your beliefs from my point of view also is ridiculous. What do I care, what do you care?? Really?

The only thing ...[text shortened]... e evolution in our schools. First it was evolution, now it is the FSM....bloody hell, what next?

First atheists have no need for religion, and we don't believe in the FSM in the same way as
we don't believe in any other god concept.

However....

Do you believe in a supreme being who created the universe? (answer yes)

Do you have any evidence for the existence of such a being? (answer no)

Do you therefore believe in the existence of a supreme being who created the entire universe for
our benefit and made us in his image (yes this singular universe creating super being has a penis)
entirely on faith with no supporting evidence whatsoever? (answer yes)

Is it rational or reasonable to believe anything on faith alone? (answer no)

Is it ridiculous to believe in god without evidence? (answer yes)

Thus you believe stuff that is ridiculous.
Nothing is weighed, correctly or otherwise.


What beliefs do you think I have that you think are ridiculous?
Because atheism doesn't have any beliefs, so what is it you think (erroneously) that I believe
that you think is ridiculous?


No it isn't the same people who teach evolution in schools and you can't claim the FSM is anything
more than satire.
It's making fun of religion, it isn't religion itself.

And evolution isn't false, and it is science, and creationism isn't and never can be.
You lost this argument... In court.

Originally posted by RJHinds
This is the first time I have noticed any hatred coming from you for
Christianity. In the past you seemed to have taken a neutral position
and even seemed at times to be leaning toward Christianity. What
has happened that has brought on this attitude you have now?

You are mistaken if you see hatred coming from me for Christianity, because it isn't there, so I suppose you and I don't get each others ways of speaking or what our hot buttons are. I paid close attention to the Kitzmiller case, as I believe strongly in the sep of church and state, to protect the faithful as much as anything. This ID=creationism=Christianity linkage is dangerous to the whole of Christianity and the faithful. Christianity has room for non-young-earth-creationism and even for the biological aspects of evolution (a theistic version exists and many scientists who believe the evolution theory are Christians) and this thread is an appropriate place for me to vent my strong feelings on the subject. Sorry for blasting off about it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kitzmiller_v._Dover_Area_School_District

http://scholar.google.com/scholar_case?case=16465861447416053365&hl=en&as_sdt=2&as_vis=1&oi=scholarr

Originally posted by JS357
You are mistaken if you see hatred coming from me for Christianity, because it isn't there, so I suppose you and I don't get each others ways of speaking or what our hot buttons are. I paid close attention to the Kitzmiller case, as I believe strongly in the sep of church and state, to protect the faithful as much as anything. This ID=creationism=Christianity ...[text shortened]... /scholar.google.com/scholar_case?case=16465861447416053365&hl=en&as_sdt=2&as_vis=1&oi=scholarr

Oh, that's okay. You had always seemed so mild mannered so I am
glad to hear you can get passionate about a subject without feeling
hatred for those with a different viewpoint.

Originally posted by googlefudge
First atheists have no need for religion, and we don't believe in the FSM in the same way as
we don't believe in any other god concept.

However....

Do you believe in a supreme being who created the universe? (answer yes)

Do you have any evidence for the existence of such a being? (answer no)

Do you therefore believe in the existence of a su ...[text shortened]... s science, and creationism isn't and never can be.
You lost this argument... In court.

Me (looking left.........looking right.........and thinking..............was I in a court room?). LOL.

I was mocking you like you were mocking me with the FSM - it is only fair to do so right?

I do not need to give you evidence for God and you will reject any evidence any way - not in the mood to waste time now (way past my bed time) - maybe tomorrow.

Give me one good reason why it is not rational/reasonable to believe in faith? I would like to be lectured by someone who doesn't have faith.

More stories of the Bible has been proven correct than evolution can dream of. That is enough evidence I need to to conclude that God does exist and I believe in Him. It matters to me.

With all respect googlefudge, you seem to be very well educated in your line arguments. The beliefs you have I think are ridiculous is the belief of evolution (everything included: abiogenesis, matter etc) and that no God exists.
Evolution was not observed - this is the big mistake. How can anyone proof the big bang, origin of life or how the planets formed in the universe if we weren't there? It is all speculation and a lot of thumb-sucking. Claiming life comes from non life is yet to be proven. It is recognized world wide that major scientific problems exist with all naturalistic origin of life scenarios. You can easily find hundreds if not thousands of these failed scenarios if you look for them on the net. This was the difficult test, not even to talk about many of the other failed attempts to proof some of the evolution theories.

It is then unbelievable how someone who can argue so quick and easy about someone else's religion being false, when yet their own belief lacks more. It is also frightening with the wealth of knowledge you have, that you even support teaching the false (yet to be proven true) subject.

The way I look at it, is that exactly those things I've just mentioned is an act of a Creator, and I and my fellow Christians call Him God. And even though I may serve the wrong God according to other religions - the fact remains that someone did it, not matter.

Originally posted by googlefudge
What beliefs do you think I have that you think are ridiculous?
Because atheism doesn't have any beliefs, so what is it you think (erroneously) that I believe
that you think is ridiculous?

It is ridiculous to think atheism doesn't have any beliefs.