Originally posted by NickstenThe point is that "am I sure of it" is utterly irrelevant. The only thing that is relevant is "is it the right one".
Thanks.
Yes you can argue on that again that any specific religion has a greater chance of being the right one for them, but the argument is, is it the right one and am I sure of it?
This is where it comes down to, yes, by looking at what religion do and what the core of those religions are, I have found none that can provide a wealth of evidence li , then making you belief something else will be difficult except of you're willing to learn 🙂
Given that there is no more evidence for any one religion over another, choice of a religion is entirely arbitrary. Your choice is made not on which one is better or 'more true' but on cultural influence and emotions.
--- Penguin.
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Originally posted by RJHindsSometime we might discuss hatred, what triggers it, what people think justifies it. and what a justified hatred justifies in turn, as actions. The old phrase love the sinner, hate the sin, comes to mind.
Oh, that's okay. You had always seemed so mild mannered so I am
glad to hear you can get passionate about a subject without feeling
hatred for those with a different viewpoint.
But not on this thread.
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Originally posted by Nickstenoh good grief... look ill give a longer post later, but, and I have said this several times before...
Me (looking left.........looking right.........and thinking..............was I in a court room?). LOL.
I was mocking you like you were mocking me with the FSM - it is only fair to do so right?
I do not need to give you evidence for God and you will reject any evidence any way - not in the mood to waste time now (way past my bed time) - maybe tomorrow. ...[text shortened]... e wrong God according to other religions - the fact remains that someone did it, not matter.
First, and I don't seem to be able to say this often enough for it to sink in.
I DON'T BELIEVE THAT NO GOD EXISTS.
I DON'T CLAIM TO KNOW NO GOD EXISTS.
I SIMPLY DON'T HAVE A BELIEF THAT A GOD EXISTS.
Is that clear enough for you to understand?
Now I don't believe that the god of the bible exists, because I find the god as described by Christians
and in the bible as self contradictory and ludicrous, but I don't believe that no god exists because there
are an infinite number of possible god concepts and I can't possibly analyse all of them to come to
any sort of belief either way for all of them (or even most of them).
And I certainly don't claim to know that any god concept doesn't exist, even the FSM.
Also...
I don't believe in evolution, I don't believe in the big bang (which is not the same thing
for heavens sake) and I don't believe in science.
I accept that evolution is the best current supported theory for how the diversity of life came
about.
I accept that all the available evidence points to the universe once having been concentrated
in a very small dense hot point which then rapidly expanded to form the universe we see today.
I know (and can demonstrate) that the best way yet devised for investigating the reality we inhabit
with as little human bias as it is possible to get and with mechanisms for correcting any and all errors
is the scientific method.
I don't believe those things, not in the same (or even remotely similar or comparable) way to your
belief that there is a god.
I don't have faith that evolution is a true and accurate description of how life could diversify and adapt
to it's surroundings, there is empirical evidence and observation that points to this being the best scientific
explanation there is for this diversity.
The thing about creationism is not that any fact is in disagreement with it, god could indeed have created
all life on earth and be continually tinkering with it in such a way as to give the results we see in nature.
But that's not a viable explanation because we don't and can't explain god.
And it predicts nothing because anything we observed in nature would be compatible with god doing it.
There is nothing you could observe that you could claim was disproof of the hypothesis god did it.
And thus it also predicts nothing because god could do anything, there is no rhyme nor reason for anything to
be the way it is other than god wanted it that way, and no guarantee he will ever want it that way again.
However evolution also fits all our observations, nothing we have seen contradicts it, however it would be trivial
to come up with examples of things we could observe, ways the world could be different, that would completely
disprove evolution, and it's explanation of how life adapted and diversified.
Evolution makes predictions, and can be falsified. And after over 150 yrs of trying nobody has done anything but
confirm it and find mountains of evidence for it.
This makes it a scientific explanation, in fact the highest grade of scientific explanation we have, a scientific theory.
I will post more tomorrow, but you are claiming I believe in things that I don't (which I suspected you were which is
why I asked) and in fact nobody (who knows what they are talking about) believes in.
No physicist 'believes' in the big bang theory, no biologist in evolution, (or at least they shouldn't) that's not how
science works.
For starters we know the standard model of physics is wrong, and even if we didn't know it was wrong we would assume it
was anyway. But it's the best and most accurate (and most successful) theory in physics (still a theory because no evidence
we currently have, although watch this space, contradicts it.) and makes unbelievably accurate and useful predictions.
So we use, and teach, the standard model, however we don't believe in it.
That's not how it works.
Science is not a religion.
And I have no faith, in anything.
Ill post more tomorrow.
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Originally posted by RJHindsAtheism is a label for people who don't have a belief in a god or gods.
It is ridiculous to think atheism doesn't have any beliefs.
that is it.
there is nothing else.
it is simply a singular absence of theistic belief.
so it has no beliefs.
It has one absence of belief.
it's that simple.
how can you not comprehend this?
Originally posted by googlefudgeAN ATHEIST BELIEVES THAT NO GOD EXISTS.
oh good grief... look ill give a longer post later, but, and I have said this several times before...
First, and I don't seem to be able to say this often enough for it to sink in.
I DON'T BELIEVE THAT NO GOD EXISTS.
I DON'T CLAIM TO KNOW NO GOD EXISTS.
I SIMPLY DON'T HAVE A BELIEF THAT A GOD EXISTS.
Is that clear enough for you to underst gion.
And I have no faith, in anything.
Ill post more tomorrow.
So you should not describe yourself as an atheist if you do not
believe the above as your first sentence in your post states.
😏
P.S. Definition of atheism for kids
http://www.wordcentral.com/cgi-bin/student?book=Student&va=atheism
atheism - the belief that there is no God
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Originally posted by RJHindsThat's the Christian definition of atheism which is not used by atheists.
AN ATHEIST BELIEVES THAT NO GOD EXISTS.
So you should not describe yourself as an atheist if you do not
believe the above as your first sentence in your post states.
😏
P.S. Definition of atheism for kids
http://www.wordcentral.com/cgi-bin/student?book=Student&va=atheism
atheism - the belief that there is no God
And you know that's not what I mean when I use that word.
You know that's not what any atheist on this forum means when they use the word.
And you know that's not what any of the famous atheists you see on tv mean when they say the word.
It's not the definition used by any of the major atheist organisations or bloggers or community at large.
It's not what atheist means.
And you bloody well should know that.
The fact that some dictionaries have it wrong impresses nobody.
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And further more... http://atheists.org/blog/2011/11/13/what-is-atheism
"What Is Atheism?
NOTE: Please do not confuse the definition of atheism with the philosophy of atheism. A lot of atheists do not like the idea of atheism only being a “lack of belief in gods,” but that is because they are placing the philosophy of atheism onto the definition of atheism. The two are different. If the definition of atheism qualified as the philosophy then we must accept babies in our numbers, which is obviously ridiculous. The philosophy of atheism ranges from one person to another, which is why I do not address it in this article. My concern is the definition of the word. I would encourage you to leave a comment on what you think the philosophy of atheism is!
What is atheism?
“Under no circumstances would I ever vote for an atheist [for President] because they are terrible [and have] no moral code.” – Star Jones, from the ABC morning television show The View, March 16 2002
“What is atheism” is usually the one question never asked of atheists. Most people do not ask this question because they already have their own ideas about what atheism is and what atheists are. Where these ideas originate vary from their minister to their social circle to myths encouraged by certain media outlets.
Theists usually define atheism incorrectly as a belief system. The ulterior motive behind this incorrect definition is that if atheism is a belief system, then theists can refer to atheism as a religion. If one can refer to atheism as a religion, then one can argue that attempts to uphold the separation of church and state (SOCAS) supports the “religion of atheism.”
Laugh if you must, but lawyers tried to do just that in the summer of 2004 in Alabama. Syndicated Christian radio host Kelly McGinley (Retaking America) tried it after the courts ordered the removal of former Alabama Chief Justice Roy Moore’s Ten Commandments monument in the rotunda of the Alabama Supreme Court. Having been a two-day guest on her Christian radio show I can assure you that she was dead serious about this and did not mean it in a sarcastic way. She honestly thought that removing the monument was supporting the “religion of atheism.”
Older dictionaries define atheism as “a belief that there is no God” and/or “denial of God.” Some dictionaries go further and say that atheism is “wickedness,” “sinfulness,” “heathenism,” “paganism,” and “immorality.” Some dictionaries even say that atheism is the “doctrine that there is no God.” At least The American Heritage Dictionary says “God and gods” after the word “doctrine,” but that does not detract from the fact that use of the word “doctrine” is incorrect.
Clearly, two thousand years of Christian influence have tainted dictionaries. I am certainly not suggesting a conspiracy. I am only suggesting that the theistic worldview and theistic usage of the word have tainted the definition from the original meaning of the word.
Speaking of the original meaning, the word atheism comes from the Greek atheos, which means “without god.” The original meaning of the word, based on its Greek origins, mentions nothing about “disbelief” or “denial.” A short and single-word definition would be “godless.”
The fact that the dictionary definitions use the phrase “there is no God” betrays the theistic influence in defining the word “atheism.” If dictionaries did not contain such influence, then the definition would read, “A belief that there are no gods.” The use of god in singular form, with a capital G, is indicative of Christian influence.
In addition, using words like “doctrine” and “denial” betray the negativity seen of atheists by theistic writers. Atheism does not have a doctrine at all and I certainly do not “deny” that gods exist. Denial is the “refusal to believe.” Atheism does not “know there is a god but refuse to believe in him (or her, for that matter).” That is as silly as saying that you know Big Foot exists but you refuse to believe in him. If the evidence of gods was insurmountable and provable, and atheists still refused to believe, then that would be an act of denial. This is similar to how Scully refused to believe in aliens and UFO encounters even though Mulder had insurmountable evidence of their existence. Scully denied the existence of aliens and UFO’s even though the evidence was overwhelming. She was a horrible example of a skeptic!
Atheism is not a belief system. Atheism is not a religion. Atheism may be part of an individual’s religious beliefs, but atheism, in and of itself, is not a belief or religion. Some religions do not have a concept of god(s). One out of three religions worldwide is atheistic in nature, meaning that they worship no gods: Taoism, Buddhism, Spiritualism, New Age, and others (Macmillan Information New Encyclopedia: World Religions, 1998).
Atheism is a lack of belief in gods, from the original Greek meaning of “without gods.” That is it. There is nothing more to it. If someone wrote a book titled “Atheism Defined,” it would only be one sentence long.
Is atheism a religion or a belief system? Let us look at the different definitions of religion and see if atheism belongs in any of them (using the American Heritage Dictionary, Fourth Edition, 2006).
1. Belief in and reverence for a supernatural power or powers regarded as creator and governor of the universe. A personal or institutionalized system grounded in such belief and worship.
No atheism resides in that definition. Atheists do not believe in a supernatural power or powers.
2. Beliefs, values, and practices based on the teachings of a spiritual leader.
Atheism does not have a spiritual leader and atheism does not have any rites or rituals (practices) around such a spiritual leader. Atheism requires no initiation, no baptism, there is no Atheist Bible (Koran, Vedas, etc) to read, no rituals that atheists must go through to join an Atheist Church (temple, mosque, synagogue, sect, etc), and no central beliefs that all atheists must adhere to in order to be “true atheists.”
As I mentioned above, there are religions that are atheistic in nature, and they may fit the second definition. Atheism is not the religion. The religion just happens to be godless. Atheism is not the central tenet of their belief system, nor is it the foundational rock of their belief system.
The only common thread that ties all atheists together is a lack of belief in gods and supernatural beings. Every atheist is as unique as a fingerprint when it comes to his or her individual philosophy, convictions, and ideals.
I have debated fellow atheists on issues as far ranging as the judicial system, the drug war, and alien abductions. I have had these debates because each atheist has a unique perspective on the world and each atheist has different convictions about every issue known to man. Some atheists see a difference between supernatural and paranormal. They may lack a belief in gods but they believe in psychics, ghosts, and other things. Such atheists should recognize that those beliefs are reliant upon faith just as much as belief in god.
Because atheists only share a lack of belief in gods, they disagree on many other issues. I am certainly not going to say that every atheist who reads this will agree with me and I am definitely not going to aver that my view represents all the atheists in the world. Chances are the first comment will take me to task for something the reader disagrees with.
by Blair Scott"
Originally posted by googlefudgeNow you want to make up your own definitons. However, you refuse
That's the Christian definition of atheism which is not used by atheists.
And you know that's not what I mean when I use that word.
You know that's not what any atheist on this forum means when they use the word.
And you know that's not what any of the famous atheists you see on tv mean when they say the word.
It's not the definition used by any of t ...[text shortened]... well should know that.
The fact that some dictionaries have it wrong impresses nobody.
to allow me to do the same. 😏
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Originally posted by RJHindsWell it isn't me personally, it's the atheist movement as a whole.
Now you want to make up your own definitons. However, you refuse
to allow me to do the same. 😏
Also, the meaning we want to use is the original and root meaning of the terms in question.
And it's OUR label which we apply to ourselves. who else should get to define what we mean
when we tell people who we are? (rhet)
So yes, I refuse to let you (and your faith) continue to distort the meaning of the label atheist
for your own ends like you have throughout your history.
Atheist originally and at root meant without [a belief in] gods.
This is the negation of the meaning of the word theist which makes entomological sense.
And it is the meaning that conveys the position those that call themselves atheist today actually hold.
Definitions of words change with use.
Atheists use the word atheist to mean a lack of belief in god, and not a belief in the lack of god.
This will eventually be picked up and the dictionaries (which often define atheism with reference
to the singular capitalised God, further proving their theistic bias) will update their definitions to show this.
Originally posted by googlefudgeThat is, if the liberal atheists get their way. Burger King. 😏
Well it isn't me personally, it's the atheist movement as a whole.
Also, the meaning we want to use is the original and root meaning of the terms in question.
And it's OUR label which we apply to ourselves. who else should get to define what we mean
when we tell people who we are? (rhet)
So yes, I refuse to let you (and your faith) continue to ...[text shortened]... talised God, further proving their theistic bias) will update their definitions to show this.
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Originally posted by RJHindsWhy do you keep saying Burger King?
That is, if the liberal atheists get their way. Burger King. 😏
Is it supposed to mean something?
Or are you doing promotion for them?
Also you really over abuse the smugness where you really shouldn't.
Note that the most natural follow-up to the word smug is g*t
Originally posted by googlefudgeDo you only have McDonald's over there? With Burger King, you can
Why do you keep saying Burger King?
Is it supposed to mean something?
Or are you doing promotion for them?
Also you really over abuse the smugness where you really shouldn't.
Note that the most natural follow-up to the word smug is g*t
order your Hamburger the way you want it. So their slogan is:
"HAVE IT YOUR WAY".
Originally posted by ZahlanziThat is your prerogative, of course. But it comes across as you wishing to draw attention to yourself with a gag that was perhaps funny the first time, but which has worn thin with repetition, and now - if anything - makes Dasa seem like a poster who is at least trying to offer something, while you are treating everyone to the dreary contempt of your attention-seeking spam.
go pay attention to dasa. i am gonna treat him however i damn please