Creation is a Scientific Fact

Originally posted by sonhouse
Well I for one am tired of waiting around for this judgement day. It's been two thousand years and counting and it would be nice if it happened sooner than later to avoid that much more real suffering going on in the world as we speak.

Of course I know that is just fantasy, no such deity is going to come down here for ANY reason. We make our own bed, we lie in it.

Then make your bed well, so it satisfies you.

Originally posted by RJHinds
Then make your bed well, so it satisfies you.

I'm not the one living in fear and afraid to even admit it. All caused by a fake religion.

Originally posted by sonhouse
I'm not the one living in fear and afraid to even admit it. All caused by a fake religion.

The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom, but the fool says in his heart that there is no God.

Originally posted by RJHinds
The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom, but the fool says in his heart that there is no God.

Like I said. I am not the one living in fear. If I die, I die and that is the end for me. If you die, you die, and that is the end for you. No nice white light, a thousand angels greeting you. It is just the end and the world will remember you or not, its your life they will remember not your future in some assinine heaven.

Originally posted by Suzianne
Don't get me wrong. I don't expect a "new Bible" to come about. It's unnecessary. It's unnecessary because Man understands more now about the universe and our place in it. We can read scripture and see that it lives forever because it's clear that God expects Man, in his increasing understanding, to see through what is written to what it means.

Takin ...[text shortened]... o begin with, and have imbued it with their own meaning, drawn from their minimal understanding.

"Taking the Word of God at its most literal and simplistic meaning is much worse than what you imagine me guilty of. It seeks to portray God as small and simplistic also. God is much bigger and capable of much more than the simplistic literalists believe. They minimalize God at every turn."

I have no idea what you mean by "literal and simplistic".

I don't imagine you guilty of anything.

All I'm saying is this; God preserves His Word. God's Word is God breathed. As Peter says, "...holy men of God spake [as they were] moved by the Holy Ghost." They were "moved", not "inspired".

2 Timothy 3:16 says "All scripture [is] given by inspiration of God, and [is] profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:"

The word inspiration means God breathed. The scripture is inspired, not men.

The Word of God is not open to private interpretation. It says what it means, and means what it says. I agree with you concerning how the scriptures are handled. Much confusion due to the failure of reading into the Word what one wants it to say. We're all guilty of that.

But God's Word is very clear when understood from the perspective of faith.

Originally posted by josephw
[b]"Taking the Word of God at its most literal and simplistic meaning is much worse than what you imagine me guilty of. It seeks to portray God as small and simplistic also. God is much bigger and capable of much more than the simplistic literalists believe. They minimalize God at every turn."

I have no idea what you mean by "literal and simplistic ...[text shortened]... l guilty of that.

But God's Word is very clear when understood from the perspective of faith.[/b]

So why did this god who wanted everyone to become christian, why did it limit its exposure to humans to one frigging tribe in the middle of an inhospitable desert? You do realize there were several million people about on the planet back then, so why no Chinese word or Australian aborigine word or Siberian word or Na Dene amarind word? No Gauls, no Greeks, and so forth. It all starts out in one silly little unknown tribe and grew but even today there are people around the planet who never heard of ANY outside religion like Hindu, Jayne, Islam, Judaism, Christianity and so forth. So are those folks bound for your hell? And all the millions, LITERALLY millions who never heard of christianity 2000 years ago or 200 years ago, that is a big portion of the entire planetary population and do you think this god of yours was so stupid to suppose it was now up to missionaries to do this alleged good work?


For one thing, missionaries DESTROY cultures with their built in arrogance of assumed superiority like what happened in Mexico and South America, civilizations living there for thousands of years, all destroyed when hit with Christianity.

You think your god wanted that?

Originally posted by sonhouse
So why did this god who wanted everyone to become christian, why did it limit its exposure to humans to one frigging tribe in the middle of an inhospitable desert? You do realize there were several million people about on the planet back then, so why no Chinese word or Australian aborigine word or Siberian word or Na Dene amarind word? No Gauls, no Greeks, ...[text shortened]... housands of years, all destroyed when hit with Christianity.

You think your god wanted that?

In answer to the first paragraph; you certainly don't understand the Biblical narrative now do you sonhouse?

Do you really expect me to give an answer to those questions in this little box? For heaven's sake! No wonder you have such a resistive attitude. You don't know the scriptures.

I'll give you the thumbnail sketch if you really want me to, but that's asking a lot. You would have to promise me that you will keep an open mind and not react subjectively. You would have to look at the Bible with an objective eye and accept the fact that it says what it says, and settle for the explanation according to the record.

Just like any other work of literature.

"For one thing, missionaries DESTROY cultures with their built in arrogance of assumed superiority like what happened in Mexico and South America, civilizations living there for thousands of years, all destroyed when hit with Christianity.

You think your god wanted that?"

You are way over exaggerating. How many Christians do you know that advocate genicide? Not one I'll wager. Your accusation against the Christian church, as it relates to the conquest and destruction of whole civilizations, underscores your inability to distinguish between good and evil.

Let me give you an example of what I mean. Let's say I have a son and I raised him to be responsible and respectful to others, but for some unknown reason of circumstances he got mixed up with a bad crowd and broke into your house and murded your wife. Are you going to blame me? Of course not!

You cannot lay at the feet of the Christian church accountability for the crimes of countless thousands of soldiers and sailors and million of others that migrated to the Western Hemisphere without making yourself look extremely biased. It just didn't happen that way.

Originally posted by sonhouse
Like I said. I am not the one living in fear. If I die, I die and that is the end for me. If you die, you die, and that is the end for you. No nice white light, a thousand angels greeting you. It is just the end and the world will remember you or not, its your life they will remember not your future in some assinine heaven.

You have a very pessimistic point of view. Why not try to change that before you die and are buried six feet under?

Originally posted by josephw
In answer to the first paragraph; you certainly don't understand the Biblical narrative now do you sonhouse?

Do you really expect me to give an answer to those questions in this little box? For heaven's sake! No wonder you have such a resistive attitude. You don't know the scriptures.

I'll give you the thumbnail sketch if you really want me to, but tha ...[text shortened]... estern Hemisphere without making yourself look extremely biased. It just didn't happen that way.

So you deny the negative effects of forcing indigenous populations into western schools and western churches? That happened already in Australia and the US where indian and Aborigine children are taken and forced into christian churches and as a result those kids lose their old identity and cannot fit in fully with western expectations and as a result the incidence of suicide and drug use and murder are WAY up in those communities where they were forced into western clothes, schools and churches where the overriding idea there the basic arrogant assumption western culture and religion is VASTLY superior to the savages they conquered, the tale of the conquest of course written by the victor.

You need to do a bit more research into the atrocities of your own religion before you make blanket statements of how in didn't happen like that and so forth. Some VERY bad things happened to the original populations in many places around the world. You try to switch blame from religion to warriors but in Mexico and South America the warriors were uber religious and that was the driving force behind the conquests, greed for gold of course but the religious aspect was there in spades, where the leaders were hyper religious and forced their religion on the indigenous folk or they would just be killed and killed they were by the thousands. You cannot brush that aside with statements about that being the result of warfare and soldiering.

Originally posted by sonhouse
So you deny the negative effects of forcing indigenous populations into western schools and western churches? That happened already in Australia and the US where indian and Aborigine children are taken and forced into christian churches and as a result those kids lose their old identity and cannot fit in fully with western expectations and as a result the i ...[text shortened]... u cannot brush that aside with statements about that being the result of warfare and soldiering.

"So you deny the negative effects of forcing indigenous populations into western schools and western churches?"

On the contrary. What negative effects do western schools and churches have on the rest of the population?

If education and assimilation is so detrimental to indigenous peoples, why doesn't it have the same effect on everyone else?

No. Murder and suicide is not caused by western education and ideology. You're going to have to find another cause, because when civilization comes knocking on the door of primitive cultures those cultures will naturally have to adapt. According to your own philosophy of life, namely evolution, it's really just a matter of the strong surviving. A more highly developed people group invading new territory will automatically force the indigenous population to assimilate or die resisting.

It's the way of the world and you know it.

True Christianity is there to pick up the pieces of broken and shattered lives following the devastation produced by the old "dog eat dog" brutish philosophy of the predominant world system. Christianity isn't the cause. It's the evolutionary philosophy you espouse that dominates the world that is the cause of every imaginable evil.

Quit fooling yourself.

Originally posted by josephw
[b]"So you deny the negative effects of forcing indigenous populations into western schools and western churches?"

On the contrary. What negative effects do western schools and churches have on the rest of the population?

If education and assimilation is so detrimental to indigenous peoples, why doesn't it have the same effect on everyone else?
...[text shortened]... e that dominates the world that is the cause of every imaginable evil.

Quit fooling yourself.[/b]

You are in denial.

Read this bit:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genocide_of_indigenous_peoples

There have been tribes completely wiped out by christian zealots.

You have this rose colored version of christianity when in fact there are whole tribes GONE now, extinct as a direct result of christian conquest.

Originally posted by sonhouse
You are in denial.

Read this bit:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genocide_of_indigenous_peoples

There have been tribes completely wiped out by christian zealots.

You have this rose colored version of christianity when in fact there are whole tribes GONE now, extinct as a direct result of christian conquest.

I did. Not once in the entire article is Christianity mentioned. No. Instead the blame was left squarely were it belongs. It belongs on those directly responsible. Not Christians.

Read it yourself.

Originally posted by josephw
I did. Not once in the entire article is Christianity mentioned. No. Instead the blame was left squarely were it belongs. It belongs on those directly responsible. Not Christians.

Read it yourself.

They did water down the facts. Here is one that didn't:

http://www.truthbeknown.com/victims.htm

Originally posted by sonhouse
They did water down the facts. Here is one that didn't:

http://www.truthbeknown.com/victims.htm

Looks like cherry picking, exaggerations, and lies from satan to me.

Originally posted by RJHinds
Looks like cherry picking, exaggerations, and lies from satan to me.

So Cortes had no religious component in his conquest?

Look at this:

"Cortés later asked Moctezuma to provide more gifts of gold to demonstrate his fealty as a vassal of Charles V. Cortés also demanded that the two large idols be removed from the main temple pyramid in the city, the human blood scrubbed off, and shrines to the Virgin Mary and St. Christopher be set up in their place. All his demands were met, further giving credence to the concept that Moctezuma had accepted the King of Spain as his liege lord."