- Joined
- 15 Sep 04
- Moves
- 7051
10 Jul 10
Originally posted by galveston75The question is why people right now might use the cross or prayer beads. Whether their behaviour is biblically motivated is not really the point or, at least, not the point I am interested in. You accuse these people of thinking that they need these devotions in order to be saved. Again, I suggest you question this.
Our true worship to God is a little more important then crossing a road. And all facets of someones worship to God should be pure and true and one should be able to explain all facets of it from the Bible. But if their beliefs are not from the Bible and are something designed by man then that causes a problem with one trying to explain their beliefs in a ...[text shortened]... accepts the cross, as he has totally condemend idols and images from mans creation on..........
10 Jul 10
Originally posted by Conrau KYour still refusing to answer the simple question as to what biblical justification can you show us as to why you think its ok to use the cross in defiance of the scriptures that clearly condemn the possesion of images or idols? Are you mentally not able to understand that question?
The question is why people right now might use the cross or prayer beads. Whether their behaviour is biblically motivated is not really the point or, at least, not the point I am interested in. You accuse these people of thinking that they need these devotions in order to be saved. Again, I suggest you question this.
I've asked now, what 6 times for you to give a simple scripture that justifies the use of the cross in worshipping God and still nothing? Why?
- Joined
- 15 Sep 04
- Moves
- 7051
10 Jul 10
Originally posted by galveston75Your still refusing to answer the simple question as to what biblical justification can you show us as to why you think its ok to use the cross in defiance of the scriptures that clearly condemn the possesion of images or idols?
Your still refusing to answer the simple question as to what biblical justification can you show us as to why you think its ok to use the cross in defiance of the scriptures that clearly condemn the possesion of images or idols? Are you mentally not able to understand that question?
I've asked now, what 6 times for you to give a simple scripture that justifies the use of the cross in worshipping God and still nothing? Why?
I am not going to enter that argument. I have already cited enough biblical passages and it is quite obvious to me you are not able to engage in honest debate.
Just try to stay on topic. You said that people use the cross or prayer beads because they think they need these in order to be saved. All I am asking is that you question this assumption. Have you ever asked another Christian why they might carry a cross or have prayer beads? It will probably turn out that they do not believe them necessary for salvation.
11 Jul 10
Originally posted by Conrau KOh my gosh...Lol. You are completely determined to avoid the question that you obviously can't answer from the Bible. My discussion with you on this subject is over until you show "any" scripture why it is ok to own, carry, make, kiss, pray to or thru the cross to God.
[b]Your still refusing to answer the simple question as to what biblical justification can you show us as to why you think its ok to use the cross in defiance of the scriptures that clearly condemn the possesion of images or idols?
I am not going to enter that argument. I have already cited enough biblical passages and it is quite obvious to me you a ...[text shortened]... e prayer beads? It will probably turn out that they do not believe them necessary for salvation.[/b]
And just because someone my feel that carrying such a thing with them makes them feel good or closer to God, by no means makes it ok. It's not the way we feel about something, it's what God says is right and wrong that we have to adhear too.
Obviously you don't care or care to see the truth in the BIBLE.
So unless you prove to me from the Bible this discusion is over.
- Joined
- 15 Sep 04
- Moves
- 7051
11 Jul 10
Originally posted by galveston75Oh my gosh...Lol. You are completely determined to avoid the question that you obviously can't answer from the Bible.
Oh my gosh...Lol. You are completely determined to avoid the question that you obviously can't answer from the Bible. My discussion with you on this subject is over until you show "any" scripture why it is ok to own, carry, make, kiss, pray to or thru the cross to God.
And just because someone my feel that carrying such a thing with them makes them fe ...[text shortened]... the truth in the BIBLE.
So unless you prove to me from the Bible this discusion is over.
Yes, I am avoiding it. I have been quite honest with you. The only reason I decided to post on this thread again was to address your assumption that people carry religious items because they believe them necessary to be saved. This betrays a misunderstanding of the purpose of devotion.
11 Jul 10
I agree with you G-75 in as much as worshiping wood,rocks, plastic Jesus, i-pods, gold,silver,money.........ect I think you get the point However I can't help and think that you have an anti-Catholic slant. I don't believe in the Catholic way myself but you have to understand that even Catholics are various and come in different bents as does all of Christendom. Some of the practices seem to be pointless no argument. Tradition however is not always bad. Christ started traditions that have been carried out by man for 2000+ years now.
Manny
11 Jul 10
1 edit
Originally posted by menace71Yes Jesus did start a few traditions that we are to follow. Your right there. But these are things that Jesus himself instituded and they are very clear and easy to read and understand when we see them in the Bible.
I agree with you G-75 in as much as worshiping wood,rocks, plastic Jesus, i-pods, gold,silver,money.........ect I think you get the point However I can't help and think that you have an anti-Catholic slant. I don't believe in the Catholic way myself but you have to understand that even Catholics are various and come in different bents as does all of Christ ...[text shortened]... . Christ started traditions that have been carried out by man for 2000+ years now.
Manny
But one should really, really make sure that their worship to God is in a true way and not with a "little leven". One could honestly be doing their worship to God with a good heart condition but still could be missing the mark.
So the Bible says to constantly be testing the scriptures so that we may do such things as filtering out any wrong practices or understandings that we may be doing without our knowledge.
And when a person is doing something in their worship that is not clearly expressed in the Bible to do, and can easly be found out thru simple research that the origins are from paganistic religions of old and even clearly go against the Bible on so many levels it would seem that one should really ask God for the help needed to see those questionable issus more cleary and be willing to not follow them if the truth comes out.
12 Jul 10
Originally posted by galveston75There are superstitious beliefs some here would argue our belief in God is superstitious. I don't think anyone here would have any argument that worshiping a cross or beads or what have you is normal given that we are in an enlightened age and even if not from a spiritual point.
Yes Jesus did start a few traditions that we are to follow. Your right there. But these are things that Jesus himself instituded and they are very clear and easy to read and understand when we see them in the Bible.
But one should really, really make sure that their worship to God is in a true way and not with a "little leven". One could honestly be do ...[text shortened]... those questionable issus more cleary and be willing to not follow them if the truth comes out.
Manny
13 Jul 10
Originally posted by menace71True. And one has to remember that the time periods that these things such as the cross were brought into the mainstream and even that took decades to finally get it going, was a time of real darkness spiritually. And Satan knew this and with all the discontent among the religious and controlling aspects of life then, it was easy for spiritual truths to get lost. Maybe some humans at that time had no ill will in formulationg the cross into the Christians worship of God and other things into their beliefs, but again Jesus fortold that this would happen and the truths he taught would be contaminated. And true to Jesus's words it did happen.
There are superstitious beliefs some here would argue our belief in God is superstitious. I don't think anyone here would have any argument that worshiping a cross or beads or what have you is normal given that we are in an enlightened age and even if not from a spiritual point.
Manny
Matt 24:24. 1Tim 4:1. Acts 20:30. 2Pet 2:1,3. Rom 16:17,18.
From 2006 Watchtower: Keep Clear of False Worship!
“‘Get out from among them, and separate yourselves,’ says Jehovah, ‘and quit touching the unclean thing.’”—2 CORINTHIANS 6:17.
MANY sincere people do not know the truth about God and the future of mankind. Not having found answers to their deepest spiritual concerns, they live in confusion and uncertainty. Millions are enslaved to superstitions, rituals, and celebrations that offend our Creator. Likely, you have neighbors and relatives who believe in a fiery hell, a triune God, the immortality of the soul, or some other false teaching.
What is responsible for this widespread spiritual darkness? Ironically, it is religion—specifically the religious organizations and leaders who have promoted ideas contrary to God’s thoughts. (Mark 7:7, 8) As a result, many people have been deceived into believing that they worship the true God, while in reality they offend him. False religion is directly responsible for this sad situation.
There is an unseen entity behind false religion. Referring to him, the apostle Paul said: “The god of this system of things has blinded the minds of the unbelievers, that the illumination of the glorious good news about the Christ, who is the image of God, might not shine through.” (2 Corinthians 4:4) “The god of this system of things” is none other than Satan the Devil. He is the principal promoter of false worship. “Satan himself keeps transforming himself into an angel of light,” wrote Paul. “It is therefore nothing great if his ministers also keep transforming themselves into ministers of righteousness.” (2 Corinthians 11:14, 15) Satan makes bad things appear good and deceives people into believing lies.
No wonder the Bible strongly condemns false religion! For instance, the Mosaic Law specifically warned God’s chosen people against false prophets. Anyone promoting untrue teachings and the worship of false gods was to be ‘put to death for speaking of revolt against Jehovah.’ The Israelites were commanded ‘to clear out what was evil from their midst.’ (Deuteronomy 13:1-5) Yes, Jehovah views false religion as evil.—Ezekiel 13:3.
Jesus Christ and his apostles reflected Jehovah’s strong feelings about false religion. Jesus warned his disciples: “Be on the watch for the false prophets that come to you in sheep’s covering, but inside they are ravenous wolves.” (Matthew 7:15; Mark 13:22, 23) Paul wrote that “God’s wrath is being revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men who are suppressing the truth.” (Romans 1:18) How vital that true Christians heed these warnings and stay clear of anyone who suppresses the truth of God’s Word or spreads false teachings!—1 John 4:1.