Cross????

Originally posted by PinkFloyd
Am I to gather that some people actually consider the cross to be an idol??? That's so perposterous it deserves no reply.🙄

1 Corinthians 1:18 (New American Standard Bible)

The Wisdom of God

18 For the word of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.

Let this speak for its self

Manny

Galatians 6:14 (New American Standard Bible)

14 But may it never be that I would boast, except in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, through which the world has been crucified to me, and I to the world.



Manny

You can't have God without Christ and you can't have Christ without His Cross.

The Christian does not worship the cross but honestly wants to emulate Christ by taking the way of the cross.



Manny

Originally posted by menace71
Galatians 6:14 (New American Standard Bible)

14 But may it never be that I would boast, except in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, through which the world has been crucified to me, and I to the world.



Manny

I find it interesting that Galvo has not really responded to Ezekiel 9:4. It is quite easy to see this as a prefiguring of Christ's death. The people were marked by the taw (which eventually evolved into the Greek tau, the earliest representation of Christ's cross) and were spared God's wrath. There is an obvious parallel with Christ's death on the cross (the tau) which redeemed mankind. If the cross were adopted as a religious symbol, it is quite plausible that it came from Exekiel 9:4, not pagan ritual.

Originally posted by menace71
You can't have God without Christ and you can't have Christ without His Cross.

The Christian does not worship the cross but honestly wants to emulate Christ by taking the way of the cross.



Manny

Originally posted by galveston75
Hey Manny and thanks for those scriptures. They of course do mention the thing Jesus died on but they say nothing about using it the way that some religions use it. There is no mention from these to give it special honor, keep a replica in ones possession and use it as an instrument of a religious value, pray to it or thru it or bow down to it.
I may b ...[text shortened]... o him.
I know that it can't be found because there is no such scripture. Thanks....

Originally posted by Conrau K
[b] I may be wrong but it appears that the Catholics and others feel it is something nessasary to do to in worshipping God with or something that ones needs to honor to gain salvation?

Yes. You are wrong. It certainly true that some Catholics venerate the cross and will bow and kiss it. Catholics do not, however, believe that it is necessary to do t ...[text shortened]... p in spirit. Rather it is only to symbolise their commitment to the cross which Paul speaks of.[/b]

Originally posted by galveston75
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/06643a.htm

Perhaps you should read this about kissing the cross....

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/06423a.htm

And maybe this about bowing to the cross....

It is unbelieveable what these poor people are told they have to do just to worship God. Unbelieveable.

Honest question G-75 can you have Jesus without the Cross?




Manny

Originally posted by menace71
Honest question G-75 can you have Jesus without the Cross?




Manny

Originally posted by galveston75
Absolutely. Can Jesus not be as important to us all without the cross or stake? If he isn't the same without some piece of wood he was killed on then how according to the Bible, not some man's concept, has this become an object that we should put so much importance on when none of the apostles or his followers did? Nothing was said of it again with even ...[text shortened]... ath on a stake? Was it just an accident or just something close at hand for the Romans to use?

IDOL, IDOLATRY
Insight #1...
An idol is an image, a representation of anything, or a symbol that is an object of passionate devotion, whether material or imagined. Generally speaking, idolatry is the veneration, love, worship, or adoration of an idol. It is usually practiced toward a real or supposed higher power, whether such power is believed to have animate existence (as a human, an animal, or an organization) or is inanimate (as a force or lifeless object of nature). Idolatry generally involves some form, ceremony, or ritual.
The Hebrew terms used to refer to idols often highlighted the origin and inherent worthlessness of idols, or they were derogatory terms of contempt. Among these are words rendered “carved or graven image” (literally, something carved out); “molten statue, image, or idol” (literally, something cast or poured out); “horrible idol”; “vain idol” (literally, vanity); and “dungy idol.” “Idol” is the usual rendering of the Greek word ei′do‧lon.
Not All Images Are Idols. God’s law not to form images (Ex 20:4, 5) did not rule out the making of all representations and statues. This is indicated by Jehovah’s later command to make two golden cherubs on the cover of the Ark and to embroider representations of cherubs on the inner tent covering of ten tent cloths for the tabernacle and the curtain separating the Holy from the Most Holy. (Ex 25:18; 26:1, 31, 33) Likewise, the interior of Solomon’s temple, the architectural plans for which were given to David by divine inspiration (1Ch 28:11, 12), was beautifully embellished with engraved carvings of cherubs, palm-tree figures, and blossoms. Two cherubs of oil-tree wood overlaid with gold stood in the Most Holy of that temple. (1Ki 6:23, 28, 29) The molten sea rested upon 12 copper bulls, and the sidewalls of the copper carriages for temple use were decorated with figures of lions, bulls, and cherubs. (1Ki 7:25, 28, 29) Twelve lions lined the steps leading up to Solomon’s throne.—2Ch 9:17-19.
These representations, however, were not idols for worship. Only the officiating priests saw the representations of the tabernacle interior and, later, of the temple interior. No one but the high priest entered the Most Holy, and that only on the Day of Atonement. (Heb 9:7) Thus there was no danger of the Israelites’ being ensnared into idolizing the golden cherubs in the sanctuary. These representations primarily served as a picture of the heavenly cherubs. (Compare Heb 9:24, 25.) That they were not to be venerated is evident from the fact that the angels themselves were not to be worshiped.—Col 2:18; Re 19:10; 22:8, 9.
Of course, there were times when images became idols, although not originally intended as objects of veneration. The copper serpent that Moses formed in the wilderness came to be worshiped, and therefore faithful King Hezekiah crushed it to pieces. (Nu 21:9; 2Ki 18:1, 4) The ephod made by Judge Gideon became “a snare” to him and to his household.—Jg 8:27.
Images as Aids in Worship. The Scriptures do not sanction the use of images as a means to address God in prayer. Such a practice runs counter to the principle that those seeking to serve Jehovah must worship him with spirit and truth. (Joh 4:24; 2Co 4:18; 5:6, 7) He tolerates no mixing of idolatrous practices with true worship, as is illustrated by his condemnation of calf worship, although the Israelites had attached his name thereto. (Ex 32:3-10) Jehovah does not share his glory with graven images.—Isa 42:8.
There is not a single instance in Scripture where faithful servants of Jehovah resorted to the use of visual aids to pray to God or engaged in a form of relative worship. Of course, some may cite Hebrews 11:21, which, according to the Catholic Douay Version, reads: “By faith Jacob, dying, blessed each of the sons of Joseph, and adored the top of his rod.” Then in a footnote on this scripture it is held that Jacob paid relative honor and veneration to the top of Joseph’s rod, and the comment is made: “Some translators, who are no friends to this relative honour, have corrupted the text, by translating it: he worshipped, leaning upon the top of his staff.” However, rather than being a corruption of the text, as this footnote maintains, this latter rendering and comparable variants thereof are in agreement with the sense of the Hebrew text at Genesis 47:31 and have been adopted even by a number of Catholic translations, including The Jerusalem Bible.
Forms of Idolatry. Acts of idolatry referred to in the Bible included such revolting practices as ceremonial prostitution, child sacrifice, drunkenness, and self-laceration to the point of causing blood to flow. (1Ki 14:24; 18:28; Jer 19:3-5; Ho 4:13, 14; Am 2:8) Idols were venerated by partaking of food and drink in festivals or ceremonies in their honor (Ex 32:6; 1Co 8:10), by bowing and sacrificing to them, by song and dance before them, and even by a kiss. (Ex 32:8, 18, 19; 1Ki 19:18; Ho 13:2) Idolatry was also committed by arranging a table of food and drink for false gods (Isa 65:11), by making drink offerings, sacrificial cakes, and sacrificial smoke (Jer 7:18; 44:17), and by weeping in religious ceremony (Eze 8:14). Certain actions, such as tattooing the flesh, making cuttings upon the flesh, imposing baldness on the forehead, cutting the sidelocks, and destroying the extremity of the beard, were prohibited by the Law, possibly, at least in part, because of being linked with prevailing idolatrous practices of neighboring peoples.—Le 19:26-28; De 14:1.
Then there are the more subtle forms of idolatry. Covetousness is idolatry (Col 3:5), since the object of an individual’s cravings diverts affection from the Creator and thus, in effect, becomes an idol. Instead of serving Jehovah God in faithfulness, a person can become a slave to his belly, that is, to fleshly desire or appetite, and make this his god. (Ro 16:18; Php 3:18, 19) Since love for the Creator is demonstrated by obedience (1Jo 5:3), rebellion and pushing ahead presumptuously are comparable to acts of idolatry.—1Sa 15:22, 23.

Originally posted by Conrau K
Galvo, once again, could you point out where those two articles you cited at all contradict me? I am genuinely interested. Your silence is revelatory.

And I am not sure why you ask Manny those questions. Manny, as he has already explained, does not venerate the cross. Why are you unable to understand the fact that Protestant Christianity is completely different to Catholicism?