Cross????

Originally posted by galveston75
If you'd look at those links it shows where this information is at.
And I know Manny does not use the cross and I'm fully aware of the Protestants beliefs and ideas.

Perhaps you did not understand my questions. Let me refresh your memory. You said that Catholics believe it is necessary to bow to the cross. I said it wasn't. You then cited two articles from the Catholic Encyclopedia. I am wondering how those articles possibly contradict what I wrote and how they support your claim that Catholics believe it is necessary to bow to the cross.

The article you have cited (which, mind you, is completely irrelevant to the questions I just posed) only confirms what I said before. Protestant Christians are not guilty of idolatry. None of the practices associated with idolatry are present in their liturgical life.

Originally posted by Conrau K
Perhaps you did not understand my questions. Let me refresh your memory. You said that Catholics believe it is necessary to bow to the cross. I said it wasn't. You then cited two articles from the Catholic Encyclopedia. I am wondering how those articles possibly contradict what I wrote and how they support your claim that Catholics believe it is necessary t ...[text shortened]... idolatry. None of the practices associated with idolatry are present in their liturgical life.

"Catholics do not, however, believe that it is necessary to do that and many do not engage in that devotional practice."

This is your comment that I responded to and the reason for the two refrances I gave.
According to these statements it is a VERY COMMON practise and pretty much a command to bow and kiss the cross. So you are wrong and misguided as to what the Catholic religion practices.
I know you'll deny it "again" but there it is in black and white.
I'm tired of going around with you on this. There are thousands a videos and pictures that we have all seen that shows the strong attachment that Catholics have for their "crosses".
Just watch any Catholic walk by a cross and see what happens.

And I'm very curious as to why your back defending a religion as you had anounced to all that you are now an athiest?

Originally posted by galveston75
IDOL, IDOLATRY
Insight #1...
An idol is an image, a representation of anything, or a symbol that is an object of passionate devotion, whether material or imagined. Generally speaking, idolatry is the veneration, love, worship, or adoration of an idol. It is usually practiced toward a real or supposed higher power, whether such power is believed to have ...[text shortened]... ), rebellion and pushing ahead presumptuously are comparable to acts of idolatry.—1Sa 15:22, 23.

Without the source, this text is of no value.
If he is afraid to reveil his source, then it must be fishy of some sort.

Originally posted by galveston75
"Catholics do not, however, believe that it is necessary to do that and many do not engage in that devotional practice."

This is your comment that I responded to and the reason for the two refrances I gave.
According to these statements it is a VERY COMMON practise and pretty much a command to bow and kiss the cross. So you are wrong and misguided ...[text shortened]... your back defending a religion as you had anounced to all that you are now an athiest?

According to these statements it is a VERY COMMON practise and pretty much a command to bow and kiss the cross. So you are wrong and misguided as to what the Catholic religion practices.

No. You have simply misinterpreted me. I do not deny that the veneration of the cross is a common practice; I deny that it is a necessary practice. Many Catholics have never. I have only once and that was before altar-serving -- an usual circumstance.

Veneration of the cross is only liturgically stipulated on Good Friday when Catholics attend the stations of the cross followed by a procession of the cross. Catholics, however, are not required to attend this liturgy (in fact, I never have.) So a good Catholic may never venerate the cross. It certainly not required in order to be saved and nothing in the two articles you cited suggests that it is.

Just watch any Catholic walk by a cross and see what happens.

Yes. Indeed. What would happen? I know for a fact that most Catholics will walk past a cross without any gesture of veneration. I used to make the sign of the cross but nothing more. Catholics will genulflect to the altar and tabernacle without exception, but not to the cross.

Originally posted by FabianFnas
Without the source, this text is of no value.
If he is afraid to reveil his source, then it must be fishy of some sort.

Insight Book Volume #1 as is written in that posting...

Originally posted by galveston75
Insight Book Volume #1 as is written in that posting...

And who is the author af this? Does he have a name?

Or did I find the right volume here?
http://www.amazon.com/Crisis-Psychiatry-Religion-Insight-Book/dp/0442098502
If so the author is Orval Hobart Mowrer. Was it so hard?

Originally posted by Conrau K
[b] According to these statements it is a VERY COMMON practise and pretty much a command to bow and kiss the cross. So you are wrong and misguided as to what the Catholic religion practices.

No. You have simply misinterpreted me. I do not deny that the veneration of the cross is a common practice; I deny that it is a necessary practice. Many Catholic ...[text shortened]... . Catholics will genulflect to the altar and tabernacle without exception, but not to the cross.[/b]

"So a good Catholic may never venerate the cross." Lol....Sure!

More from the Catholic Encycl:

"A processional cross is simply a crucifix which is carried at the head of a procession, and which, that it may be more easily seen, is usually mounted upon a long staff or handle.

From an archaeological point of view this subject has already been briefly dealt with under Cross. It will suffice to note here that the processional cross does not essentially differ from what may be called the cross of jurisdiction which is borne before the pope, his legates, and metropolitans or archbishops. The pope is entitled to have the cross borne before him wherever he may be; a legate's cross is used only in the territory for which he has been appointed, and that of an archbishop within the limits of his province. All these crosses, including that of the pope, have in practice only one bar. The double-barred cross is a sort of heraldic fiction which is unknown in the ceremonial of the Church. It is supposed that every parish possesses a cross of its own and that behind this, as a sort of standard, the parishioners are marshalled when they have to take part in some general procession. It is usual also for cathedral chapters and similar collegiate bodies to possess a processional cross which precedes them in their corporate capacity; and the same is true of religious, for whom usage prescribes that in case of the monastic orders the staff of the cross should be of silver or metal, but for the mendicant orders, of wood. In the case of these crosses of religious orders, confraternities, etc. it is usual in Italy to attach streamers to a sort of penthouse over the crucifix, or to the knob underneath it. When these crosses are carried in procession the figure of Christ faces the direction in which the procession is moving, but in the case of the papal, legatine, and archiepiscopal crosses the figure of our Saviour is always turned towards the prelate to whom it belongs. In England, during the Middle Ages, a special processional cross was used during Lent. It was of wood, painted red and had no figure of Christ upon it. It seems probable that this is identical with the "vexillum cinericium" of which we read in the Sarum Processional."

No importance on the cross? It would seem that the cross is the object promoted and seen first by all watching in parades. Why not Jesus or some symbol of God? Nope..it's the cross.
And I'm learning that there are so many different crosses used for different events and different ones you may get to use depending on your rank in the church. Wow!

Originally posted by FabianFnas
And who is the author af this? Does he have a name?

Or did I find the right volume here?
http://www.amazon.com/Crisis-Psychiatry-Religion-Insight-Book/dp/0442098502
If so the author is Orval Hobart Mowrer. Was it so hard?

Nope....Keep trying.

Originally posted by galveston75
Nope....Keep trying.

So you don't know it either? And yet you're copy his text as if you believed in his words?

Originally posted by FabianFnas
So you don't know it either? And yet you're copy his text as if you believed in his words?

does Glavo personally need to know the treasurer of the united states, or the secretary of the treasury when he conducts business with his dollar bill? Is it not merely the inherent value that he is interested in, that the recipient of his dollar bill is interested in? what is more he need not divulge any information to anyone that he does not deem either trustworthy or entitled to, and given your incessant whinging and false accusations, i would be reticent about telling you anything. You simply cannot be trusted! and finally, your calls for authorship are nothing but a diversion from the content of his text, which is after all, why he posted it, if you have any comments on the actual content, then make it, otherwise, what are you doing here but trolling and causing trouble?

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
does Glavo personally need to know personally the treasurer of the united states, or the secretary of the treasury when he conducts business with his dollar bill? Is it not merely the inherent value that he is interested in? what is more he need not divulge any information to anyone that he does not deem either trustworthy or entitled to, and given ...[text shortened]... alse accusations, i would be reticent about telling you anything. You simply cannot be trusted!

So you say he doesn't know what he is talking about? Is your esteem so low on galv?

I think he knows the answer, even if you belittle him.

Originally posted by FabianFnas
So you say he doesn't know what he is talking about? Is your esteem so low on galv?

I think he knows the answer, even if you belittle him.

sorry i have not the foggiest idea what you are talking about, if you have any comment on the actual content of the text, then make it, otherwise, waste someone else's time!

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
sorry i have not the foggiest idea what you are talking about, if you have any comment on the actual content of the text, then make it, otherwise, waste someone else's time!

🙂

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
sorry i have not the foggiest idea what you are talking about

Yes, I understand that you don't.
If you read it once more, I'm sure that you will understand some of it.
Just let our friend galv answer the question. If he knows the answer. Which I think he does.

Originally posted by FabianFnas
Yes, I understand that you don't.
If you read it once more, I'm sure that you will understand some of it.
Just let our friend galv answer the question. If he knows the answer. Which I think he does.

no once was quite enough, infact, more than enough

(Psalm 119:37) . . .Make my eyes pass on from seeing what is worthless. . .