07 Aug 22
@suzianne saidYou’ve already been shown that the crucifix is originally pagan, subsequently adopted by Christianity and elevated to a highly significant and symbolic image of something which should NOT be imaged.
What is it about the cross not being a "graven image" do you not understand?
It is a graven image.
07 Aug 22
@rajk999 saidYou can look up the words graven image and see which of our definitions is more
A graven image is anything made by human hands out of wood stone or metal and which is a representation of things in heaven, earth or under the sea. Your bogus definition of 'graven image' is what I do not understand.
aligned with what others think if you desire.
07 Aug 22
@divegeester saidThe crucifix isn't anything but a reminder of what Christ did for us; it holds no
You’ve already been shown that the crucifix is originally pagan, subsequently adopted by Christianity and elevated to a highly significant and symbolic image of something which should NOT be imaged.
It is a graven image.
special powers; it isn't something supernatural in and of itself; if you want to
elevate a piece of wood, go for it, but it is nothing but a symbol. You might be
into vampire movies and stories, I'm sure someone thinks it is more than it is
but then again many people elevate quite a few things above their real status
in life.
@fmf saidCharles Mason thought he got messages from the Beatle's White Album; people
Don't they?
do all kinds of moronic things, and some believe nothing started everything.
I'm sure someone somewhere in some time, did something you can point to,
doesn't mean what they did validates any point. If your point is someone,
somewhere, in sometime thought of crucifixes as a graven image, I'll agree with
you. God can give us anything, and we can turn into something not intended,
the snake in the wilderness God had Moses make, they turned that into an object
of worship when it was not meant to be, and it was destroyed for that.
@kellyjay saidThis is why God said not to do it... do not have any graven images.
The crucifix isn't anything but a reminder of what Christ did for us; it holds no
special powers; it isn't something supernatural in and of itself; if you want to
elevate a piece of wood, go for it, but it is nothing but a symbol. You might be
into vampire movies and stories, I'm sure someone thinks it is more than it is
but then again many people elevate quite a few things above their real status
in life.
God is not saying that you can have symbols but do not worship them.
HE SAID DO NOT HAVE THEM.
07 Aug 22
@fmf saidThere are a lot of things I don’t like about art and God. I hate the hallows around people’s heads, even when they paint them around Jesus’ head when He was a baby through adulthood. If someone looks at anything that they feel is somehow more than it is it can be an idol, trees, the planet 🌎.
You don't think that a statue of Jesus wearing a crown of thorns and nailed to a replica of a crucifix is a graven image?
If you are saying can someone treat these things as objects of worship, I will have to change my original stance and say I agree. We can in our fallen state screw up anything making it something other than what it is.
07 Aug 22
@rajk999 saidSo would you be good with people worshiping natural reliefs as manifestations of Gods..?
A graven image is anything made by human hands out of wood stone or metal and which is a representation of things in heaven, earth or under the sea. Your bogus definition of 'graven image' is what I do not understand.
Like, what is your stance on a natural Shivling, like the famous one at Amaranth?
https://magikindia.com/amarnath-pilgrimage/
Or how do you feel about ... paintings? You take no issue with the Orthodox kissing ikons and the likes, right?
I think most people feel that the references to graven images is potentially broader than just a physical graven image, and also is meant to refer to specifically the worship of idols...
Some statue of soldiers or of a famous poet in a park is not exactly a 'graven image' that we are forbidden from creating, right?
... What does it mean if there is a cross carved out of stone or forged out of metal that is simply worn as a symbol of one's relationship with God..? How would this be a violation of the commandment?
07 Aug 22
@kellyjay saidSo, just to be clear. You now DO think that a statue of Jesus wearing a crown of thorns and nailed to a replica of a crucifix is a graven image or... you STLL don't think it'sa graven image? Which is it to be?
There are a lot of things I don’t like about art and God. I hate the hallows around people’s heads, even when they paint them around Jesus’ head when He was a baby through adulthood. If someone looks at anything that they feel is somehow more than it is it can be an idol, trees, the planet 🌎.
If you are saying can someone treat these things as objects of worship, I will ...[text shortened]... say I agree. We can in our fallen state screw up anything making it something other than what it is.
07 Aug 22
@fmf saidAs far as I'm concerned, it is only rock, but that doesn't mean others cannot turn it
So, just to be clear. You now DO think that a statue of Jesus wearing a crown of thorns and nailed to a replica of a crucifix is a graven image or... you STLL don't think it'sa graven image? Which is it to be?
into something else.
07 Aug 22
@philokalia saidIs there some reason that someone would need a ,,, a symbol of one's relationship with God.. If there is such a teaching of having symbols tin the bible,then please provide a reference. But ... Allow me to answer. God said that you do not need any such symbol to represent anything and that it is not to be done, God is to be worshiped in the manner specified in the bible. Symbols representing a relationship or people is never a recommended practice.
So would you be good with people worshiping natural reliefs as manifestations of Gods..?
Like, what is your stance on a natural Shivling, like the famous one at Amaranth?
https://magikindia.com/amarnath-pilgrimage/
Or how do you feel about ... paintings? You take no issue with the Orthodox kissing ikons and the likes, right?
I think most people feel that the r ...[text shortened]... orn as a symbol of one's relationship with God..? How would this be a violation of the commandment?
@rajk999 saidSymbols are not "graven images", because they are not worshiped. Graven images are about idolatry.
This is why God said not to do it... do not have any graven images.
God is not saying that you can have symbols but do not worship them.
HE SAID DO NOT HAVE THEM.
Anything for you to feel justified in spitting on Christianity.
You could try defining things as they are, instead of how you want them to be. And when I say "you", I mean you, @divegeester and @FMF. No wonder you guys get along, as long as you spit on the same people.