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@ghost-of-a-duke saidYou are not quite getting what is being said in those scriptures but can't help you there.
“Six days later, Jesus took with him Peter and James and his brother John and led
them up a high mountain, by themselves. And he was transfigured before them,
and his face shone like the sun, and his clothes became dazzling white. Suddenly
there appeared to them Moses and Elijah, talking with him. Then Peter said to
Jesus, ‘Lord, it is good for us to be here; ...[text shortened]... istian worships Jesus because of his humanity
4. A Christian worships Jesus because of his humility
But at Matthew 4:10 Jesus himself said this:
10 Then Jesus said to him: “Go away, Satan! For it is written: ‘It is Jehovah your God you must worship, and it is to him (((((alone)))) you must render sacred service.’”
If we are to worship him as we are to worship his Father Jehovah, why say this? Why not just not keep quite and just accept being worshiped in the way we worship his Father?
Jesus himself said this, Matthew 23:9:
9 Moreover, do not call anyone your Father on earth, for one is your Father, the heavenly one.
Again why is he himself explaining that there is a clear difference between himself and his Father Jehovah that he is directing to whom we are to worship?
Their is a difference that you aren't seeing......
261d
@galveston75 saidCopyright The Watchtower Organization?
Anyone need help yet? Try this:
Did Paul not say at Hebrews 1:6: “Let all the angels of God worship him [Jesus]”?’ (King James Version) How can we understand this scripture in the light of what the Bible says about idolatry?
Worship in the Bible
First, one has to understand what Paul meant here by worship. He used the Greek word pro·sky·neʹo. Unger’s Bible Dic ...[text shortened]... imes pro·sky·neʹo often included literally bowing down before someone of high stature.
Help any?
@galveston75 said"Then I saw another angel coming up from the east, having the seal of the living God. He called out in a loud voice to the four angels who had been given power to harm the land and the sea:
Let us hear what all of this is about??? Try and stick to the question if you can. Take your time......
Rev 14: 1-5 1. "Then I saw, and look! the Lamb standing on Mount Zion, and with him 144,000 who have his name and the name of his Father written on their foreheads. 2 I heard a sound coming out of heaven like the sound of many waters and like the sound of loud t ...[text shortened]... ruits to God and to the Lamb, 5 and no deceit was found in their mouths; they are without blemish."
“Do not harm the land or the sea or the trees until we put a seal on the foreheads of the servants of our God.”
Then I heard the number of those who were sealed: 144,000 from all the tribes of Israel.
From the tribe of Judah 12,000 were sealed, from the tribe of Reuben 12,000, from the tribe of Gad 12,000,
from the tribe of Asher 12,000, from the tribe of Naphtali 12,000, from the tribe of Manasseh 12,000,
from the tribe of Simeon 12,000, from the tribe of Levi 12,000, from the tribe of Issachar 12,000,
from the tribe of Zebulun 12,000, from the tribe of Joseph 12,000, from the tribe of Benjamin 12,000."
-- Revelation 7:2-8, KJV
"144,000 from all the tribes of Israel." ISRAEL.
How many of your "elite" JWs are from the tribes of Israel?
I wager NONE.
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@suzianne saidSo are you from any of those tribes? If not then you are not of this group either that are to go to heaven and serve beside Jesus. Right? If you do somehow make your way to heaven, what will you be doing there? Playing a harp?
"Then I saw another angel coming up from the east, having the seal of the living God. He called out in a loud voice to the four angels who had been given power to harm the land and the sea:
“Do not harm the land or the sea or the trees until we put a seal on the foreheads of the servants of our God.”
Then I heard the number of those who were sealed: 144,000 from all the tr ...[text shortened]... of Israel." ISRAEL.
How many of your "elite" JWs are from the tribes of Israel?
I wager NONE.
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261d
@galveston75 saidRussell said he (Jesus) was the 'object of unreproved worship even when a babe' because his 'divinity was retained.'
You are not quite getting what is being said in those scriptures but can't help you there.
But at Matthew 4:10 Jesus himself said this:
10 Then Jesus said to him: “Go away, Satan! For it is written: ‘It is Jehovah your God you must worship, and it is to him (((((alone)))) you must render sacred service.’”
If we are to worship him as we are to worship his Father ...[text shortened]... at he is directing to whom we are to worship?
Their is a difference that you aren't seeing......
Do you not understand what he meant by that? Do you not think something divine deserves to be worshipped?
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@galveston75 saidWhat in the world does that have to do with your church preventing its members from memorializing Jesus correctly?
So are you from any of those tribes? If not then you are not of this group either that are to go to heaven and serve beside Jesus. Right? If you do somehow make your way to heaven, what will you be doing there? Playing a harp?
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@ghost-of-a-duke saidPssssst, that was before they decided their scripture was going to be very different from all other Christian scripture.
Russell said he (Jesus) was the 'object of unreproved worship even when a babe' because his 'divinity was retained.'
Do you not understand what he meant by that? Do you not think something divine deserves to be worshipped?
Their scripture is very different because their beliefs informed their scripture, instead of belief being informed by scripture. When they used the KJV, they had no choice, because their beliefs were informed by the scripture. After they commissioned the NWT, they could finally let their beliefs inform their new Bible.
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@galveston75 saidScriptural contortions mode > ACTIVATED
Anyone need help yet? Try this:
Did Paul not say at Hebrews 1:6: “Let all the angels of God worship him [Jesus]”?’ (King James Version) How can we understand this scripture in the light of what the Bible says about idolatry?
Worship in the Bible
First, one has to understand what Paul meant here by worship. He used the Greek word pro·sky·neʹo. Unger’s Bible Dic ...[text shortened]... imes pro·sky·neʹo often included literally bowing down before someone of high stature.
Help any?
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261d
I the Preacher have been king over Israel in Jerusalem. And I applied my heart to seek and to search out by wisdom all that is done under heaven. It is an unhappy business that God has given to the children of man to be busy with. I have seen everything that is done under the sun, and behold, all is vanity and a striving after wind.
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@pettytalk saidVery true my friend. You can see that here with most of the comments and the forever arguing that most here do on every subject regarding the bible, god's gift to humans. But Jehovah had it written so that one has to search and rely on him for direction. Unfortunately we all have Satan that exist and has a huge bag of wrenches to throw into the mix to make the bible seem to be a continuous mystery. As the bible says about the wisdom and truths about his word is that most would always "be searching, but never finding". Satan makes sure of that. He even sees that in most bibles and in most religions that God's own name 'Jehovah' has been removed from their teachings and from their bibles. With that being removed it automatically adds the level of confusion needed to actually know who Jehovah is and who Jesus is. Satan has made the untruths of the trinity now seem to be a truth, and now most "Christian" religions believe it.
I the Preacher have been king over Israel in Jerusalem. And I applied my heart to seek and to search out by wisdom all that is done under heaven. It is an unhappy business that God has given to the children of man to be busy with. I have seen everything that is done under the sun, and behold, all is vanity and a striving after wind.
One untruth only leads to others.....
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261d
@galveston75 saidRussell said he (Jesus) was the 'object of unreproved worship even when a babe' because his 'divinity was retained.'
One untruth only leads to others.....
Is this an untruth?
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@galveston75 saidHello - Your post has some interesting information. If your motive is to initiate a discussion of these topics, you've certainly succeeded. If your motive is to change anyone's mind here, you've certainly failed.
So are you from any of those tribes? If not then you are not of this group either that are to go to heaven and serve beside Jesus. Right? If you do somehow make your way to heaven, what will you be doing there? Playing a harp?
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@mchill saidHello to you. No I know most here and have discussed just about anything you could think of. I know they probably will not change and I'm not trying to change them. But you know at one time Saul ( Paul ) thought he was doing God's will by persecuting the followers of Jesus. But Jesus had a little talk with him and Saul's heart changed and he finally learned things he never knew. So it can happen to anyone if their heart is receptive....
Hello - Your post has some interesting information. If your motive is to initiate a discussion of these topics, you've certainly succeeded. If your motive is to change anyone's mind here, you've certainly failed.
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@Ghost-of-a-Duke
So sorry you are not understanding all that the word "Worship" means. Once you understand it's many meanings and the language that was being used back when that scripture was written, maybe you'll see it.
I have nothing else to say.....
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261d
@galveston75 saidForget worship. The founder of your church said his (Jesus) 'divinity was retained.'
@Ghost-of-a-Duke
So sorry you are not understanding all that the word "Worship" means. Once you understand it's many meanings and the language that was being used back when that scripture was written, maybe you'll see it.
I have nothing else to say.....
Why the façade of pretending you are answering questions when you are doing anything but? - Attempting to water down the meaning of 'worship' still doesn't even come close to tackling what Russell said about Jesus and why he should be worshipped.
Do you agree with the founder of your church that the divinity of Jesus was retained?
(So sorry if you are not understanding what Russell said).