26 Jul 08
Originally posted by Henry23You're a fundamentalists... (not a compliment)
This is sad - you're actually trying to defend your position!
Let me refresh your memory which seems to be very selective at present. In one of my previous posts I said:
[b] I don't think you understood my previous post:
No, we don't agree on these.
So your statement that we agreed on the definition is clearly false.
Yet even according to ...[text shortened]... be able to see it for themselves. You're just making yourself look bad. 😕[/b]
Now you try to save your face by accusations. That's low.
I gave you the chance to make a good definition, you declined, meaning that you agreed to mine. I even corrected it to make you happy. You agreed.
You point is - "A prophecy is not a prophecy if it's not true." This one is not true, therefore it is not a prophecy? Right? Fundamentalist talk...
You are talking with satans tongue.
26 Jul 08
1 edit
Originally posted by Henry23You do not know about MENE, MENE, TEKEL, UPHARSIN? P.S. MENE= weight, measure, numbered, or counted. TEKEL= be weighed. UPHARSIN= to break in two, divide, to split up: -divide. -"It has been counted and counted, weighed and divided."
I don't follow. What does 'TEKEL' mean, please?
26 Jul 08
Originally posted by Rajk999Good question. and the answer: yes they did - they made covenants/treaties (did I spell that right) with the inhabitants of the land which God had expressly forbid them from doing.
I understood that from your previous post.
So there is a one yr waiting period and other conditions relating to the gods of the other people.
I did some reading around Joshua and Judges. I cant seem to find where the prohecy was actually fullfilled if at all, after the year. Did the Jews comit some wrong ?
Judges 2:1 Then the Angel of the LORD came up from Gilgal to Bochim, and said: "I led you up from Egypt and brought you to the land of which I swore to your fathers; and I said, 'I will never break My covenant with you.2 And you shall make no covenant with the inhabitants of this land; you shall tear down their altars.' But you have not obeyed My voice. Why have you done this?3 Therefore I also said, 'I will not drive them out before you; but they shall be thorns in your side, and their gods shall be a snare to you.' "
The treaties they made are recorded in many Scriptures, e.g. Judges 1:28 And it came to pass, when Israel was strong, that they put the Canaanites under tribute, but did not completely drive them out.
26 Jul 08
2 edits
Originally posted by FabianFnasCorrection, that is not my point.
You point is - "A prophecy is not a prophecy if it's not true." This one is not true, therefore it is not a prophecy? Right? Fundamentalist talk...
You are talking with satans tongue.
My point is that there is clearly a difference between a prophecy and a promise. A promise from God can effectively be a prophecy if it is an unconditional promise, in other words, if there is no condition that the recipients of the promise must fulfill to receive it.
But in this case it is a conditional promise.
Besides, as I pointed out in a previous post, even according to your definition Josh 3:10 does not qualify as a prophecy:
In point (1) you state: 'When god says "this will happen", that is a prophecy.' Yet Joshua is clearly refering to Ex 23:20-30 in which God says, 'If you obey, this will happen.' So it does not fulfill your own conditions anyway!
There is a clear difference between 'this will happen' and 'if you obey, this will happen'. The only reason you don't want to acknowledge that is because that would be acknowledging that you are wrong, which you clearly aren't man enough to do.
I think you're just sour because your 'proof' has been refuted.
You accuse me of having the tongue of Satan, but you're the one who refuses to be honest. I think I've been completely honest throughout.
26 Jul 08
Originally posted by gambit3Oh, yeah, now I remember.
You do not know about MENE, MENE, TEKEL, UPHARSIN? P.S. MENE= weight, measure, numbered, or counted. TEKEL= be weighed. UPHARSIN= to break in two, divide, to split up: -divide. -"It has been counted and counted, weighed and divided."
Do you mean by TEKEL that the proof has been weighed?
26 Jul 08
1 edit
Originally posted by FabianFnasFundamentalist: Someone who adheres to the fundamentals of their faith.
You're a fundamentalists... (not a compliment)
This is the definition according to which I am a fundamentalist. I'm not sure what your definition is.
Just for interest sake, FabianFnas, what are your beliefs? Are you an atheist, a humanist, or something else?
26 Jul 08
3 edits
Originally posted by Rajk999Sorry, I didn't completely understand your post the first time around.
I understood that from your previous post.
So there is a one yr waiting period and other conditions relating to the gods of the other people.
I did some reading around Joshua and Judges. I cant seem to find where the prohecy was actually fullfilled if at all, after the year. Did the Jews comit some wrong ?
There is not a one year waiting period. God said that if the Israelites fulfill the conditions of the promise He would drive out the inhabitants of the land slowly ('not in one year' here means in a period longer than one year; in other words, many years).
I hope that clarifies.
01 Aug 08
My challenge still stands:
Can someone produce a Bible prophecy which they can prove to be false. There are many who claim that the Bible contains false prophecy, but none of them produces any proof.
It seems that FabianFnas lost interest in the debate as soon as it became apparent that he was wrong. Come on, FF, don't give up so soon - if the Bible is false as you claim, then it should contain many examples of false prophecy to choose from. Just try again...🙂
01 Aug 08
Originally posted by Henry23Yeah, sure. The prophecy about the fall of Tyre is false.
My challenge still stands:
Can someone produce a Bible prophecy which they can prove to be false. There are many who claim that the Bible contains false prophecy, but none of them produces any proof.
It seems that FabianFnas lost interest in the debate as soon as it became apparent that he was wrong. Come on, FF, don't give up so soon - if the Bible is ...[text shortened]... aim, then it should contain many examples of false prophecy to choose from. Just try again...🙂
01 Aug 08
Originally posted by Henry23The Bible that you refer to:
My challenge still stands:
Can someone produce a Bible prophecy which they can prove to be false. There are many who claim that the Bible contains false prophecy, but none of them produces any proof.
It seems that FabianFnas lost interest in the debate as soon as it became apparent that he was wrong. Come on, FF, don't give up so soon - if the Bible is ...[text shortened]... aim, then it should contain many examples of false prophecy to choose from. Just try again...🙂
1. Does not contain truth statements.
2. Does not actually exist.
If I produce a prophesy from the book commonly known as the Bible, you will tell me that I am interpreting it wrong, or translating it wrong etc. If I ask you to produce a version of the Bible that is correctly interpreted in clear legal indisputable language, you will not be able to do so. Further, if I question a particular prophesy, you will give an interpretation of it, and another Christian will give a completely different interpretation though we can be sure that both interpretations will fit the facts known to the interpreter. Should the fact known change (eg the interpreter learns that Tyre still exists) then the interpretation will change too. Wise Christians will even go to the extent of admitting that the interpretation they are giving is in fact provisional.
01 Aug 08
Originally posted by bbarrI've just read from page 5 of this thread on the suggestion of FabianFnas, in "Can you do this?", who seems to think that Henry23 has been refuted. I have to say that the patience of Henry23 has impressed me and in no way is he "refuted".
Yeah, sure. The prophecy about the fall of Tyre is false.
Oddly enough, in the thread mentioned, I bought up the subject of Tyre. The prophecy WAS fulfilled in every detail but I'm not staying with this thread (life's too short and I want to play some chess 😵
If you want to answer me please go to "Can you do this?"
01 Aug 08
Originally posted by DrimachusNo, the prophecy was not fulfilled. If you're interested in confirming your error, please refer to the following:
I've just read from page 5 of this thread on the suggestion of FabianFnas, in "Can you do this?", who seems to think that Henry23 has been refuted. I have to say that the patience of Henry23 has impressed me and in no way is he "refuted".
Oddly enough, in the thread mentioned, I bought up the subject of Tyre. The prophecy WAS fulfilled in every detail but ...[text shortened]... I want to play some chess 😵
If you want to answer me please go to "Can you do this?"
Tyre in the Early Persian Period (539-486 B.C.E.)
H. Jacob Katzenstein
The Biblical Archaeologist, Vol. 42, No. 1 (Winter, 1979), pp. 23-34
I have other peer-reviewed sources.
01 Aug 08
Originally posted by Henry23Joel 3:16 "A stranger shall never again enter Jerusalem."
My challenge still stands:
Can someone produce a Bible prophecy which they can prove to be false. There are many who claim that the Bible contains false prophecy, but none of them produces any proof.
It seems that FabianFnas lost interest in the debate as soon as it became apparent that he was wrong. Come on, FF, don't give up so soon - if the Bible is ...[text shortened]... aim, then it should contain many examples of false prophecy to choose from. Just try again...🙂
01 Aug 08
Originally posted by Henry23Satan will be glad when you die. He likes company.
My challenge still stands:
Can someone produce a Bible prophecy which they can prove to be false. There are many who claim that the Bible contains false prophecy, but none of them produces any proof.
It seems that FabianFnas lost interest in the debate as soon as it became apparent that he was wrong. Come on, FF, don't give up so soon - if the Bible is ...[text shortened]... aim, then it should contain many examples of false prophecy to choose from. Just try again...🙂
A proof was presented, you denied the word of the bible. You lost.