Detroit statue

Originally posted by divegeester
You did well this time; about 8 posts before you got petty and argumentative.

I think you are reading more into my post than is actually there. I am just trying to understand what this thread is about ie what you really object to with regards to the statue.
And I think you are being a little evasive but I don't think I am being either petty nor argumentative - nor do I think it reasonable for you to imply that I am normally so (and normally much worse).

You clearly have a preconceived notion about what the Satanist group is about and I am curious as to what that notion is.

Originally posted by googlefudge
He didn't, he made a perfectly reasonable post and was not at all petty.

To me, it looks like an obvious attempt by you to try to squirm out of answering a
question you don't want to have to deal with.

"Am I also against Harry Potter films?" No, I'm not.

Happy? 🙂

Originally posted by divegeester
"Am I also against Harry Potter films?" No, I'm not.

Happy? 🙂

Not really, you are avoiding the rhetorical point of the question by taking it out of context.

And they were not my questions, so I am not the appropriate recipient to the answers.

Originally posted by twhitehead
I think you are reading more into my post than is actually there. I am just trying to understand what this thread is about ie what you really object to with regards to the statue.
And I think you are being a little evasive but I don't think I am being either petty nor argumentative - nor do I think it reasonable for you to imply that I am normally so (an ...[text shortened]... ceived notion about what the Satanist group is about and I am curious as to what that notion is.

Perhaps I am reading more into it than is there, we have a history of misunderstanding each other.

If a group say they are "Satanists" and erect effigies of baphomet who is typification of a demon or Satanic figure then I will presume they worship the Satan of the Bible. Perhaps they don't realise this but it is my opinion that they are. If there is evidence that demonstrates that they are not I will not reject it.

Originally posted by googlefudge
Not really, you are avoiding the rhetorical point of the question by taking it out of context.

And they were not my questions, so I am not the appropriate recipient to the answers.

What were your questions?

Originally posted by divegeester
Perhaps I am reading more into it than is there, we have a history of misunderstanding each other.

The reason I crammed a lot of questions into one post (including the Harry Potter one) is that you twice blew me off with responses that essentially said 'read my mind!'. So rather than asking more single questions and getting more non-responses, I try to explore a bit with more questions with a wider range in the hope you will at least say
yes or no to one of them.

If a group say they are "Satanists" and erect effigies of baphomet who is typification of a demon or Satanic figure then I will presume they worship the Satan of the Bible. Perhaps they don't realise this but it is my opinion that they are.
An interesting situation. Can one worship something without realising it? If one does, are they responsible for the consequences, and what are the consequences? (just thinking aloud here, they are not really questions addressed to you)

If there is evidence that demonstrates that they are not I will not reject it.
I provided a couple of indications that suggest they are perfectly nice people with admirable goals. I think you would be hard pressed to find anyone outside of an insane asylum that would actually believe all the Christian mythology and then choose to worship the Satan figure. I get the feeling from the website (which I didn't look at very closely) that they are descendants of LaVey Satanism who I believe are in reality atheists who use the symbology of the Satan character from Christian mythology as part of their philosophy and also probably to deliberately upset Christians and fight for freedom of religion and from religion.
But those are just first impressions, I don't actually know a whole lot about them.
I do think it unreasonable to project your own beliefs on to them.

Originally posted by twhitehead
The reason I crammed a lot of questions into one post (including the Harry Potter one) is that you twice blew me off with responses that essentially said 'read my mind!'. So rather than asking more single questions and getting more non-responses, I try to explore a bit with more questions with a wider range in the hope you will at least say
yes or no to ...[text shortened]... know a whole lot about them.
I do think it unreasonable to project your own beliefs on to them.

I don't think I'm being unreasonable in assuming that someone who says they are a satanist and worships an effigy of baphomet, is worshiping Satan of the Bible. I see no reason to presume otherwise.
However I do accept that these poeple could be kind-hearted. Although there is no evidence either way. As I said at the top of this exchange, I would engage with them peacefully and respectfully.

Originally posted by divegeester
I don't think I'm being unreasonable in assuming that someone who says they are a satanist and worships an effigy of baphomet, is worshiping Satan of the Bible. I see no reason to presume otherwise.

You must have a very different image of the Christian Satan than the one I learned about. I guess there is a whole range of beliefs within Christianity, but I do not see any reasonable rationale for worshipping any of the versions of Satan within most Christian denominations. I would expect that if the group in question really does believe in and worship an entity, that they believe that the Satan character in Christianity has been grossly misunderstood and is actually quite different from the one portrayed in Christianity.

My main concern from the beginning of the thread was to try and discern how they are different from your point of view to Muslims who also have quite different beliefs from yours about the various characters in Christian mythology.

However I do accept that these poeple could be kind-hearted. Although there is no evidence either way.
Well there is now, as I presented some in the thread.

Originally posted by twhitehead
You must have a very different image of the Christian Satan than the one I learned about.

Maybe, it's an interesting point to discuss. What did you learn about Satan?

Originally posted by divegeester
What were your questions?

Oh, my questions were these, in response to this. But I'm mainly just watching the discussion
between you and twhitehead.

Originally posted by divegeester
Have you not come across the concept of Satan begin an anti-Christ figure before?

Yes, but I am anti Christ... As are many atheists, and many members of non-Christian religions.

Would you oppose a statue of me, or of a depiction of any other religions god?

Also, even if their religion is directly opposed to yours...

Your religions is directly opposed to theirs...

How many times have you had Satanists come around and complain about private crucifixes?

Originally posted by googlefudge
Oh, my questions were these, in response to this. But I'm mainly just watching the discussion
between you and twhitehead.

Originally posted by divegeester
[b]Have you not come across the concept of Satan begin an anti-Christ figure before?

Yes, but I am anti Christ... As are many atheists, and many members of non-Christian reli ...[text shortened]... How many times have you had Satanists come around and complain about private crucifixes?

[/b]

I don't understand what your issue is; are you suggesting that I would not have the right to speak out against something I disagree with?

Originally posted by divegeester
Maybe, it's an interesting point to discuss. What did you learn about Satan?

I have given it a lot of thought, and I honestly don't think I could give much of a description to Satan. I guess I can't say much more than 'a very bad former angel that you certainly don't want to be praying to.'

Originally posted by twhitehead
I have given it a lot of thought, and I honestly don't think I could give much of a description to Satan. I guess I can't say much more than 'a very bad former angel that you certainly don't want to be praying to.'

Pretty much where I am also.

To be clear then, I believe in freedom of religion and freedom of speech. Where these two meet is where would cast my peaceable opinion by talking to these people unless I found them to be Dennis Wheatley novel types and felt I was in danger of being crucified upside down or something equally as exciting. In which case I'd give them a wide berth and probably move to Oklahoma.